Hall of FameHall of Fame  Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp  chatChat
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
Archive (Forum Locked Forum Locked)
 Whyislam.org Forums : Archive : Archive
Message Icon Topic: One leaves Islam, they are to be put to death Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 9 Next >>
Author Message
Guests
Guest Group
Guest Group

Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Guests Replybullet Posted: 30 June 2006 at 3:11am
Originally posted by Eternity

 
You said, "It's a skeleton in Islam's closet."
 
You want to elaborate on this comment ?..
Because it's so completely in contradiction with our generally agreed understanding of basic human rights (as enshrined e.g. in UN conventions) that it's a complete no-no for the vast majority of humanity.

In itself, it's enough to turn away most people from Islam.

And it won't disappear : until a majority of scholars recognize that the death penalty for apostates is simply wrong, this issue will stay open , and keep hounding Islam.

A skeleton in the closet.
No Self-Vote Allowed.   IP IP Logged
sraphine973  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 2220
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote sraphine973 Replybullet Posted: 30 June 2006 at 3:38am
Originally posted by SisterGoldust

Originally posted by Deserves2Die

 
2Ch 15:13 That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small  or great, whether man or woman.
 
So the Modren Chirstains and Jews do not follow this Verse by GOD any more?
 
 
 
 
 
the font was too small - now we all can read it.
 
Big smile
 
 
If you are following the "Question to Catholics" thread, you will see that ALL the Law was fulfilled in CHRIST, who was the only truely Righteous Jew who FULFILLED the Jewish Law PERFECTLY.
 
AND
 
ALL who transgressed the Law( which is ALL of us), and merited the death penalty according to that very law, have been REDEEMED from the penalty of the Law (DEATH) by the ONE who paid the price for breaking that same law, ON OUR BEHALF.
 
It is for that reason, that CHRISTIANS are no longer subject to the death penalty for breaking the Law of God, and we do not impose it on others.
 
 Because ONE came to pay the PRICE FOR US. For ALL of us.
 
Therefore, the Law has been SATISFIED IN FULL.
 
THAT is the GOSPEL (Good News) of Jesus Christ.
 
COURT DISMISSED.Big smile
 
MARANATHA!
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has chosen me to bring good news to the poor.He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set free the oppressed
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
LtTony  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4148
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote LtTony Replybullet Posted: 30 June 2006 at 4:02am
 

knock down the false distortions of people like Giordano, Jerusalem, and LtTony.

 

------------------------------------------

 

Exsqueeze me?  Where have I attempted to distort Islamic teachings on this.  I admitted I don't know what the Quran says on the subject.

Let's review, shall we?

My first post to jerusalem's question:

I don't know what the Quran says.  Most here say death is not appropriate.  A few have likened apostasy to treason against a secular state (vs. caliphate), and said death is OK, since the apostate would have committed a crime against the (islamic) state...A few defended the recent attempt to execute an apostate in Afghanistan, now said to be hiding.  Last I heard, militant clerics still had a reward out on his head.

 

But most here have agreed a death sentence for merely changing religion is not what Islam teaches.

 

That's what I know.  I didn't pretend to know any more. Sheesh.
 
I would have stayed out of it at that point. But then Islamway cut loose with, "He is not killed immediately but he is given 3 days to repent and all his questions are asked .. if he insisted, and of course he won't, then such a person deserve more than killing" (my emphasis)
 
I said I was "shocked."  At that juncture I tended to agree with Gio's characterization of a "skeleton in a closet."  But added the afore mentioned poster "seems to be a minority of one on this particular issue."
 
The rest of the time I back-handed attempts to interject Christianity's alleged position on the subject.  That's all. (I did state the treason connection is "lunacy." Even some muslims say the killing thing (surah?) was for a specific incident.)
 
Muslims had a perfect opportunity to explain thisoft-raised issue.  But instead of attacking the poster's comment (I can imagine the PMs the guy is getting), they turn their ire elsewhere.  Made me want to ask, "What's your view then?"
 
 
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
LtTony  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4148
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote LtTony Replybullet Posted: 30 June 2006 at 4:06am
 
There was about a 45-page thread on this subject a while back when the Afghani thing came up.  There was also a lengthy counter-thread about Christian apostates.  The questions have been answered.  We should let it go.
 
Where is the OP (Jerusalem) anyway?
 
 
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Guests
Guest Group
Guest Group

Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Guests Replybullet Posted: 30 June 2006 at 5:53am
Hi Lt.

of course, this has been discussed many times, but the issue simply won't go away.

I am familiar with the "treason", "spying" etc analogies which Muslims use in order to defend what, in my view is undefendable.

Yes, every State can and will prosecute "treason" "spying" "cooperation with the enemy".

However : people, in "normal" States, are prosecuted for concrete acts of treason, independently from their religion.

In the  "Islamic" State, there seems to be an important difference if the traitor is a Muslim, a non-Muslim, a former Muslim.

Former Muslim "traitors" apparently "enjoy" a special treatment.

In fact, they are killed for their apostasy, not for the specific act of spying, or cooperation with the enemy. Why else would they be allowed a pardon after returning back to the "true faith", if the prosecution was originally based on concrete acts of spying etc ?

And why should non-Muslim "traitors" (Zoroastrians, scientologists etc) not be allowed the same possibility ?

The treason analogy is therefore deeply contradictory.
No Self-Vote Allowed.   IP IP Logged
Islamway  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Allahu Akbar
Religion: Islam(Sunni)
Posts: 3140
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Islamway Replybullet Posted: 30 June 2006 at 6:19am
Originally posted by LtTony

 

knock down the false distortions of people like Giordano, Jerusalem, and LtTony.

 

------------------------------------------

 

Exsqueeze me?  Where have I attempted to distort Islamic teachings on this.  I admitted I don't know what the Quran says on the subject.

Let's review, shall we?

My first post to jerusalem's question:

I don't know what the Quran says.  Most here say death is not appropriate.  A few have likened apostasy to treason against a secular state (vs. caliphate), and said death is OK, since the apostate would have committed a crime against the (islamic) state...A few defended the recent attempt to execute an apostate in Afghanistan, now said to be hiding.  Last I heard, militant clerics still had a reward out on his head.

 

But most here have agreed a death sentence for merely changing religion is not what Islam teaches.

 

That's what I know.  I didn't pretend to know any more. Sheesh.
 
I would have stayed out of it at that point. But then Islamway cut loose with, "He is not killed immediately but he is given 3 days to repent and all his questions are asked .. if he insisted, and of course he won't, then such a person deserve more than killing" (my emphasis)
 
I said I was "shocked."  At that juncture I tended to agree with Gio's characterization of a "skeleton in a closet."  But added the afore mentioned poster "seems to be a minority of one on this particular issue."
 
The rest of the time I back-handed attempts to interject Christianity's alleged position on the subject.  That's all. (I did state the treason connection is "lunacy." Even some muslims say the killing thing (surah?) was for a specific incident.)
 
Muslims had a perfect opportunity to explain thisoft-raised issue.  But instead of attacking the poster's comment (I can imagine the PMs the guy is getting), they turn their ire elsewhere.  Made me want to ask, "What's your view then?"
 
 
 
Hi , Why were you shocked? give me one reason.
You say this because you are not Muslim and think Islam is a false religion. so you will never get it.
 
But according to GOD Islam is the only ultimate truth. any one who leave this religion to another religion which are all (including Christianity) are very clear to be false religions .. So this person is insulting GOD (deviation from monotheism) and insulting his last prophet (calling him false prophet) .. Yet he can believe in that without declaring his disbelief .. or just leave this country. As for these 3 days: all his doubt in Islam resulting from ignorance are answered by theologians.  This is GOD rules either you accept them or not
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Guests
Guest Group
Guest Group

Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Guests Replybullet Posted: 30 June 2006 at 6:31am
Originally posted by Islamway

  This is GOD rules either you accept them or not
And most of humanity does not accept them.
No Self-Vote Allowed.   IP IP Logged
Islamway  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Allahu Akbar
Religion: Islam(Sunni)
Posts: 3140
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Islamway Replybullet Posted: 30 June 2006 at 6:39am
Most of unbelievers (Kaffirs) like yourself
We alhamdullelah accepts Allah as a God .. Islam as a religion .. Muhammad (sas) as a messenger and prophet
 
[25:27] The Day that the wrong doer will bite at his hands, He will say, Oh! would that I had taken a (straight) path with the Apostle!
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Guests
Guest Group
Guest Group

Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Guests Replybullet Posted: 30 June 2006 at 6:49am
Originally posted by Islamway

Most of unbelievers (Kaffirs) like yourself
We alhamdullelah accepts Allah as a God .. Islam as a religion .. Muhammad (sas) as a messenger and prophet
 
[25:27] The Day that the wrong doer will bite at his hands, He will say, Oh! would that I had taken a (straight) path with the Apostle!
So, if an Egyptian Muslim becomes a Coptic Christian, he should be killed ? and you are the one who says that Copts are not persecuted ?
No Self-Vote Allowed.   IP IP Logged
Islamway  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Allahu Akbar
Religion: Islam(Sunni)
Posts: 3140
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Islamway Replybullet Posted: 30 June 2006 at 6:56am
Who told you that Egypt, and other Islamic countries are totally applying Islamic sharia?
 
By the what does this have with persecution .. very silly comment
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Guests
Guest Group
Guest Group

Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Guests Replybullet Posted: 30 June 2006 at 7:14am
Originally posted by Islamway

Who told you that Egypt, and other Islamic countries are totally applying Islamic sharia?
 
By the what does this have with persecution .. very silly comment
Execution of apostates has nothing to do with persecution ?

very silly comment
No Self-Vote Allowed.   IP IP Logged
sraphine973  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 2220
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote sraphine973 Replybullet Posted: 30 June 2006 at 7:19am
So if Egypt and other Islamic countries DO apply Islamic sharia TOTALLY, by say putting to death an Egyptian Muslim who becomes a Christian, this does not constitute PERSECUTION in your mind?Confused
 
MARANATHA!
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has chosen me to bring good news to the poor.He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set free the oppressed
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Islamway  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Allahu Akbar
Religion: Islam(Sunni)
Posts: 3140
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Islamway Replybullet Posted: 30 June 2006 at 8:02am
Originally posted by giordano

Originally posted by Islamway

Who told you that Egypt, and other Islamic countries are totally applying Islamic sharia?
 
By the what does this have with persecution .. very silly comment
Execution of apostates has nothing to do with persecution ?

very silly comment
 
Another silly comment  LOL
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
LtTony  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4148
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote LtTony Replybullet Posted: 30 June 2006 at 8:10am
Originally posted by giordano

Originally posted by Islamway

Who told you that Egypt, and other Islamic countries are totally applying Islamic sharia?
 
By the what does this have with persecution .. very silly comment
Execution of apostates has nothing to do with persecution ?

very silly comment
 
Retort of the Year nominee.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 9 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums version 8.03
Copyright ©2001-2006 Web Wiz Guide
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed by members of the Whyislam Forum do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of the Whyislam Team, or any of its subsidiaries, or parent organizations.