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Bill2702  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Bill2702 Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2006 at 7:26am
Hi Amy,
Do you live in America?
If so I would ask what values you associate with being "American".
Same question to any other Americans.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Westwind Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2006 at 10:13am
Originally posted by Aviatrix

Westwind I really enjoyed your posts, especially about capitalism and materialism... dead on, you were. However, I know that I am stereotyping, and there is a reason for me to do that. I'm not taking a person here or a person there, using their characteristics to describe the nation, rather, I'm trying to find something common throughout the nation that constitutes "majority."

I'm really interested in this, especially in the role it plays in the change of societal values domestically (e.g., how children are raised), and also the effect on foreign policy. I'm convinced that the way the United States of America treats the world has something to do with underlying religious tradition, and I'm trying to pinpoint exactly what the creed is that has formed in the "melting pot" of this society, affecting our decisions.
 
Hmm. I don't really think that the majority of Americans fit a certain profile by belonging to any particular religion. I think we could find that there is a subset of values common to many religions.
Some confusion may exist because those common values may be motivated by different religious or philosophical reasons. For instance, an atheist may believe that all humans, because they are sentient, are more valuable than other life forms, and thus assigns specific inalienable rights to humans. A Christian believes that God loves all of mankind, sinner or saved, and therefore God has assigned an intrinsinc value far above all other lifeforms on earth. So the Christian, assigns the same inalienable rights to humans that the atheist did. So we have a common belief, but it is based on totally different criteria.
 
If our culture and foreign policy seems contradictory, it is because there is a warped sense of morality embodied in liberals who think that we should just give every minority group that demands it, 'oppressed' status, and special rights and protection that will make them feel good. This politically correct view of reality is not reality, and it is currently fueling the culture war between moral absolutists and moral relativists. These contradictory value systems are affecting our foreign policy as well, because the two major political parties are roughly representative of the two moral systems.
He is risen! Alleluia! Mark 16:1-6
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Aviatrix  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Aviatrix Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2006 at 10:33am
No, they don't belong to a particular religion, but I think there share some common beliefs--I want to identify them.

I think a warped sense of morality exists on both ends of the spectrum. The danger of identifying with one or the other is to see the opposite end as an extreme, viewing oneself as "moderate." In general, America does not sit at either the two extremes, nor should it. You cannot blame "liberals" for problems without accusing "conservatives" of their own; both sides are equally culpable in the nation's movement away from its old "values" and "traditions." In fact, the more these two groups try to polarize the nation, the further the entire country will find itself from religion. That's because the philosophies which are dividing the country are not religious in nature, but their importance is magnified by their appearance in daily life--the news, from employers, etc.

A "pre-emptive" attack is an aggressive act of war that is actually favored by a large minority in this country, if not the majority. (I think at least 40%). A much smaller portion of people are totally opposed to the concept at all. So tell me, what religion suggests that fighting first is the best fight? If this is an American value--attack them before they attack you--from what doctrine is it born?
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jimdi3  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote jimdi3 Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2006 at 10:55am
If this is an American value--attack them before they attack you--from what doctrine is it born?
 
Lessons of History - perhaps?
hype the sensationalism by capitalizing on the propensity of a few. Grotham
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Rhoda  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Rhoda Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2006 at 12:03pm
I am talking about the average American who isn't charitable in his own family let alone give to charity in their own communities.

I must not know many "average" Americans. This is a gross misrepresentation in my opinion.

Amy, you suggested that people should do good deeds and give to charity without any motivation but to do good deeds and to give to charity. You mentioned the tax deduction. There's something to be said for removing it, along with all tax free status of religious groups.

I will quote Islamway on a different thread: 6:160

Whoever does a righteous work receives the reward for ten.

So it seems that mixed motives for "righteous work" is not exclusive to the American religion, whatever that may be.
No matter how cynical you get, it is impossible to keep up. (Lily Tomlin)
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Omenaka Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2006 at 12:28pm
There are many who do good things out of Fear of punishment , but this leads to resentment , because it is not real love for those being Helped it is forced, and it ain't love if it is Forced , Bought, coerced or done w/ Fear,
There is no Fear in Love.
Love Omenaka
Forgive the Body and love the soul, For the soul is Gods Eternal child, your Brother. And my religion is LOVE, not Other.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Westwind Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2006 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by Aviatrix

No, they don't belong to a particular religion, but I think there share some common beliefs--I want to identify them.

A "pre-emptive" attack is an aggressive act of war that is actually favored by a large minority in this country, if not the majority. (I think at least 40%). A much smaller portion of people are totally opposed to the concept at all. So tell me, what religion suggests that fighting first is the best fight? If this is an American value--attack them before they attack you--from what doctrine is it born?
 
I agree that conservatives failed to protect conservative moral values. I blame this on the extreme short-sighteness of politicians today. They seem to think that raising money to defeat liberals in elections is more important than why those liberals need to be defeated. Conservative politicians have been woefully inadequate in explaining and defending our values.
 
I don't agree totally that a pre-emptive strike is inherently evil. Warfare has changed from the days large armies and naval formations. Warfare is through proxies now, i.e. al-quaida, Hamas, Hezbollah. If it looks like they are preparing an attack on the U.S., but planning and training for it in Syria or Iran, should we ignore it and wait until some city is turned in to NBC (Nuclear, Biological, or Chemical weapon) graveyard?
 
It's a calculated risk in either direction, but I wouldn't call a pre-emptive strike inherently evil.
 
Instead of looking back at the failure to find WMD's in Iraq, look forward and imagine a different situation with Syria. If we thought they were preparing a Hezbollah poison gas attack on Paris, and it was also believed by the intelligence services of several other nations to be true, should NATO attack Syria, or wait for the poison gas to be released on the Metro? What would be the moral issues then?
He is risen! Alleluia! Mark 16:1-6
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whatever_girl  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote whatever_girl Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2006 at 9:52pm
Hi Amy--interesting thread.
I think that initially, America was (supposedly) founded on Christian principles...I mean, there is historical "proof" of that. But, as we know, many can claim to 'be' a certain faith, but not practice it. The morals of America have largely deteriorated because many people are not practicing their given faiths, as they used to. I also think eating dinner with the family...women trying to be men...corporate America and the almighty dollar...etc...have taken a front seat over religion. I am religous, and I believe in raising my kids this way--but it is a daily effort. I always teach them that God is in everything, and that without faith--your life will cease to make sense. (I believe this anyways)
 
I also personally know many families who raise their kids with religious beliefs...ranging from Muslim...to Hindu...to Christian. I think it's false to say that America is full of Christians who don't follow their faith. I'm Christian, and every week, my parish is packed. But, I will agree that America's moral fabric has been unraveling for some time now. But, it's due to the above mentioned things...I think the world is unraveling, as well.
 
Thanks for letting my contribute.Smile
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Rhoda  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Rhoda Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2006 at 10:10pm
No disrespect, whatevergirl, but so have people thought for thousands of years. It's a rare person who can see his own time as part of the thread of history. You've heard of the Roaring 20's in the US, I presume. Just one example. These people became the survivors of the Great Depression and the parents of The Greatest Generation.

It's not time to give up on our character yet.
No matter how cynical you get, it is impossible to keep up. (Lily Tomlin)
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whatever_girl  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote whatever_girl Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2006 at 1:14am
...and behold...Rhoda the eloquent writer. Beautifully stated.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote SolaChristo Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2006 at 5:28pm
Originally posted by Aviatrix

Let's stereotype...
 
If America in general, by which I mean the majority, were classified into one group, with one overpowering religious identity, what would it be? Does the American population follow, as a general rule, the practices of any particular religion?
 
I think it doesn't. I'm guessing that if you sample most Americans, you'll find a belief in God. That rules out atheism. But now you're probably figuring that most Americans identify themselves as Christians, yet I ask: can they be identified as Christians by the rest of the world?
 
I think the answer is no. I don't think that the majority population of this country considers itself "Christian" enough to attend church every Sunday, even on major religious holidays (Easter, Christmas). Of course it varies between the seas, with some communities clinging more strongly to their religious heritage than others.
 
I also don't think the majority population of this country considers itself Christian enough to uphold the most basic tenets of the religion. I've heard (and would not like this disputed in this particular thread please) that the 10 Commandments can be basically summarized by another, which is to love God, and to love Him by loving others. This ought to be recognized as a fundamental principle of Christianity, right? Love your enemies? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you? If you love me (Jesus) keep my commandments?
 
So is it? I want to examine the majority public opinion based on public policy. The actions of the governments, while not representative of individual opinions are nevertheless a reflection of the majority's will. Essentially, the "job" of political leaders who by and large are selected by the populations they represent, is dependent upon their ability to satisfy that group. Simply, then, the choices made by "elected officials" ought to be representative of the choices which would be made by the people who elect them.
 
Furthermore, the choices made by the collective government ought to reflect the choices which would be made by the individuals in a purely democratic state. So when one person, elected by the general population, chooses favorites among other nations, one would expect that the choice of favoritism would resound with the nation at large. That is, we expect that he made his decision based on the collective opinion of the people whom he represents.
 
When a group of people enact policies in this country that apply to the entire population, one would expect that, this being a representative democracy, the policies would be favored by at least the majority.
 
So, when the country at large institutes policies that are inherently injust, and cites religion as the primary basis for those policies, when the nation claims to be rooted in religion, and to rely on religion for guidance, it is necessary to ask, what that religion actually is!
 
When the government continues to play a game with the world that is in fact in opposition to the most basic tenets of the religion to which it claims to adhere, either the government is lying, or the religion is not what it claims to be!
 
What is the religion of America?


Im  a little confused with your question.
But let me answer it like this.
There is a cultural war going on in America.This war has been going on for some time. This war has on one side those that would take prayer out of school, the ten commandments out of the court house and the continuing of taking God out of every situation against those that w=ant to keep God in.
There is a large number of Americans whose religion is secular humanism a large number of Americans who are conservative Christian, there are those whose religion is the dollar. All these  forces conflict and engage in a national debate on issues on what direction the country goes.
As for the war, It is the role of  the government to defend and protect its citizens. You will disagree but it is my belief and many others belief that this administration is doing just that.
Every knee shall bow every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
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Omenaka  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Omenaka Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2006 at 5:42pm
I say we needa president that is elected by the people not a select few that went to some electoralcolledge that only a select few can gain entrance, or vote, No matter how many times I hear How and why the electoral colledge was and is still in action, It just makes no sense,
The same way that living in Fear makes no sense.
Love Omenaka 
Get the "bum", Claput ! Weve seen Bad and Now want Good.
 
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Edited by Omenaka - 16 July 2006 at 5:46pm
Forgive the Body and love the soul, For the soul is Gods Eternal child, your Brother. And my religion is LOVE, not Other.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Rhoda Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2006 at 6:03pm
Omenaka, you're confused because of the word "college". There is no college as the word is understood today. It's a confusing subject, but when one votes for president he is actually voting for a representative to present the vote to a group that will  authorize the election.

Whether this is a good system will be very much discussed in another year or so.
No matter how cynical you get, it is impossible to keep up. (Lily Tomlin)
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Omenaka Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2006 at 6:08pm
It is a horrible system , What ever happened to one man one vote, it is antiquated because in the old days not every one could get to the polls, that has changed in the last 50 or so years and I don't need someone else deciding for me,
 who I think should be the Head of our Nation, No matter how complex it is It wont make sense to me untill I can actually Vote someone in to Office.
Love Omenaka
Forgive the Body and love the soul, For the soul is Gods Eternal child, your Brother. And my religion is LOVE, not Other.
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