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salwa05  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote salwa05 Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2006 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by sraphine973

Is that your interpretation Salwa05?
 
And nope it doesn't answer it for me unless you can prove and back up what you are saying. The Quran should be clear should it not?
 
MARANATHA!
 
Yes the Quran is clear.  You mentioned urself this verse:
 
YUSUFALI: She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects 
 
and then the other verse you mentioned where it is not about angels appearing as men to Mary but simply talking to her:
 
Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.
 
I'm trying to give short explanations.  Do you want a 3-pages explanation when everything can be said in one line?
 
I promise you that for more complicated questions I will talk for pages and ask the help of fuqaha' that know much better than me SmileSmile
 
 
Allah knows best
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salwa05  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote salwa05 Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2006 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by sraphine973

Here is another one...
 
 
Who was the first true believer of the "true" faith?
 
Abraham?
 
 002.132
YUSUFALI: And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam."
PICKTHAL: The same did Abraham enjoin upon his sons, and also Jacob, (saying): O my sons! Lo! Allah hath chosen for you the (true) religion; therefore die not save as men who have surrendered (unto Him).
SHAKIR: And the same did Ibrahim enjoin on his sons and (so did) Yaqoub. O my sons! surely Allah has chosen for you (this) faith, therefore die not unless you are Muslims.
 
Moses?
 
 007.143
YUSUFALI: When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe."
PICKTHAL: And when Moses came to Our appointed tryst and his Lord had spoken unto him, he said: My Lord! Show me (Thy Self), that I may gaze upon Thee. He said: Thou wilt not see Me, but gaze upon the mountain! If it stand still in its place, then thou wilt see Me. And when his Lord revealed (His) glory to the mountain He sent it crashing down. And Moses fell down senseless. And when he woke he said: Glory unto Thee! I turn unto Thee repentant, and I am the first of (true) believers.
SHAKIR: And when Musa came at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said: My Lord! show me (Thyself), so that I may look upon Thee. He said: You cannot (bear to) see Me but look at the mountain, if it remains firm in its place, then will you see Me; but when his Lord manifested His glory to the mountain He made it crumble and Musa fell down in a swoon; then when he recovered, he said: Glory be to Thee, I turn to Thee, and I am the first of the believers.
 
OR Muhammad?
 
 039.012
YUSUFALI: "And I am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam."
PICKTHAL: And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him).
SHAKIR: And I am commanded that I shall be the first of those who submit.
 
MARANATHA!
 
 

All prophets from Adam to Muhammad were Muslims which means submitted to the will of Allah.

 

 

Now the first verse you quoted about Abraham doesnít talk about him as the first believer.  So itís not a good example. 

 

Second verse: 007.143
YUSUFALI: When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe."

 

It means the first to believe among his contemporaries.  Prophet Moses received the Torah.  He was the first one to believe in it since Allah sent him on earth to convey the message of the Torah.

 

The same applies to Prophet Muhammad in Sourate 39:12. 

 
He was the first believer in the complete message of Allah, revealed through the Quran.  The first believer in the complete and final message of Allah (The Quran) was Prophet Muhammad. (my reference: Riyad el salehin).

 

Every prophet is the first believer in the revelation that was revealed to him.  It goes without saying!

 

 



Edited by salwa05 - 07 August 2006 at 9:20am
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mai moslemah  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote mai moslemah Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2006 at 1:07pm

the verses are so clear sapharine

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sraphine973  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote sraphine973 Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2006 at 1:31pm
Yes of course they are so clear.LOL When you can interpret them whichever way you like.
 
WHERE does it specify in the Quran that Moses meant he was the first amongst his contemporaries?
 
It seems that the verses in the Quran are so vague and amorphous that you can make them say anything you want. Truly a book for all people for all ages.LOL
 
MARANATHA!
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has chosen me to bring good news to the poor.He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set free the oppressed
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Guests Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2006 at 1:33pm
Keep trying, False Prophet oops I mean Sraph...... 

Edited by Rachel25 - 06 August 2006 at 1:34pm
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salwa05  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote salwa05 Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2006 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by sraphine973

Yes of course they are so clear.LOL When you can interpret them whichever way you like.
 
WHERE does it specify in the Quran that Moses meant he was the first amongst his contemporaries?
 
It seems that the verses in the Quran are so vague and amorphous that you can make them say anything you want. Truly a book for all people for all ages.LOL
 
MARANATHA!
 
Is it all that you've found about the Quran?  I don't need to make copy-pastes and talk for 3 pages, refer to scholars for things that are obvious.  We can't say the same about you. 
 
Yes it's a book for all ages, from the simplest spirit to the most intelligent mind.
 
Try again if you want but reality is here, in front of your eyes but you don't want to see it.
 
 
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mai moslemah  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote mai moslemah Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2006 at 1:39pm
Originally posted by sraphine973

Yes of course they are so clear.LOL When you can interpret them whichever way you like.
 
WHERE does it specify in the Quran that Moses meant he was the first amongst his contemporaries?
 
It seems that the verses in the Quran are so vague and amorphous that you can make them say anything you want. Truly a book for all people for all ages.LOL
 
MARANATHA!

sapharine i expected more from you
it is so make sence the the prophet is the first believer in his nation,or why Allah send prophets
it does not need to much smart to understand this"
the verses really clear,just u are trying hard to find contradiction
i noticed when anyone here try to proove for you that the bible is altered or contradicted u just come to pick on islam
keep trying sapharine,we will be happy to make u learn(if u wantWink)
u just cant stand the fact that the Quran have no contradiction.poor you
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Emad  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Emad Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2006 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by sraphine973

Yes of course they are so clear.LOL When you can interpret them whichever way you like.
 
WHERE does it specify in the Quran that Moses meant he was the first amongst his contemporaries?
 
It seems that the verses in the Quran are so vague and amorphous that you can make them say anything you want. Truly a book for all people for all ages.LOL
 
MARANATHA!
 
Maranatha I believe I explained this issue to you a while back in another thread.  The Quran has rules for interpretation and not anyone can just interpret it to suit their needs. 
 

Interpreting the Quran has to be done in the following way:

The Quran by the Quran, example one verse is not clear, but another is, thus telling you what the unclear one means.

The Quran by hadith:  The Prophet peace be upon him saying something or doing something interprets the Quran, as he was a walking Quran.

The Sayings of His companions, especially if they all agree on something.

Then the Arabic language. 

Explaining the Quran is a science that must be learned, it is not just what me or you read and think it means by reading it once or twice without looking into any of the above. 

It is a science and isn't explained according to ones whims and desires. To do this one has to be familiar with almost all of the hadith of the Prophet peace be upon him and the authenticity of each, all of the Quran and have read and studied many tafsir books, familiar with many of the saying of the companions and the next two generations, and be an expert in Arabic language. Hadith have a similar science.

 



Edited by Emad - 06 August 2006 at 1:42pm
Verily, either we or you are rightly guided or in plain error. (Quran Saba:24)

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Emad Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2006 at 1:58pm
Read this, it will help  Twisting the Qurían to Justify the WTC Tragedy

Edited by Emad - 06 August 2006 at 1:59pm
Verily, either we or you are rightly guided or in plain error. (Quran Saba:24)

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mansio
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote mansio Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2006 at 2:15pm
I have this one:

42-11: "...laysa kamithlihi shay'un
wahuwa s-samÓ3u l-baSÓru."

"...Nothing is like him (= Allah)
He is the one who hears and sees." (or "he is the Hearer and the Seer")

Allah is completely different from anything in the world (he is utterly transcendant) but the end of the verse says that he has the human qualities of hearing and seeing.


Edited by mansio - 06 August 2006 at 2:16pm
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hawk  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote hawk Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2006 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by salwa05

Sraphine, it's very cute of you.  Thank you for the special request Smile
 
Do you know what it simply means?  That the Quran is the revaltion that completes the previous ones (the Torah and the Bible).
 
So the answer is no.  There is no contradiction in the Quran.  it simply states that Allah sent revelations to men and every revelation completes the previous one.
 
very simple. 


Salwa this is nonsense, you know very well there is abrogation within the Qura'an it is considered valid by all islamic scholars.
Dont ask! I will let you know when I have the answer!
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sraphine973  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote sraphine973 Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2006 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by Rachel25

Keep trying, False Prophet oops I mean Sraph...... 
 
What a pathetic person you are Rachel25. I actually feel really sorry for you. How insecure you must be to only ever offer insults. Watch out that huge chip on your shoulder doesn't crush and suffocate you.
 
It is also sad that Muslims feel that they can indulge in a never ending bashfest about the Bible and Christianity, presenting the same old furbies which have been answered a thousand times before, and think they will never  get a taste of their own medicine. Which you obviously hate the taste of, guaging the reaction.
 
I guess it hasn't proved as hilarious an excercise as salwa05 promised us.
 
You expect us to answer your stupid charges endlessly and dismiss out of hand anything we say or bring to the discussion anything that supports our argument and then you have the nerve to get upset when I do not accept your personal interpretations and answers.
 
salwa05 has presented NO evidence to support her claims, yet she expects me to accept them without question.
 
Emad at least has provided a link, which i will read in due course.
 
Emad you may have answered some of those questions before, just as we have also answered the same old questions a thousand times before.
 
But if they can recycle the same stuff, I guess we can too. You all set the rules of engagement here.
 
It is just a shame that this forum is not about wanting true discourse. It is just about Muslim one-upmanship, trying to rubbish the faith and scriptures of others. 
 
If you think you can point out the inconsistancies you see in the Bible and disregard everything we say, well I guess we can also point out the inconsistencies we see in the Quran and disregard everything you say.
 
It isn't going to get us anywhere.
 
But that is precisely what you asked for.
 
MARANATHA!
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has chosen me to bring good news to the poor.He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set free the oppressed
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mai moslemah  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote mai moslemah Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2006 at 2:33pm

noting like him,but he hear every thing

that doesn't mean he have ears...
and he can see every thing
that doesn't mean he have eyes like we human have
Allah nothing like him,u cant compair him with us
but his knowledge every where ,his seeing every where and his hearing is every where
but that does not mean he is in the creation but he is out of it
this is his attributes
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote hawk Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2006 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by salwa05

 
 

All prophets from Adam to Muhammad were Muslims which means submitting to the will of Allah.

 

 

Now the first verse you quoted about Abraham doesnít talk about him as the first believer.  So itís not a good example. 

 

Second verse: 007.143
YUSUFALI: When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe."

 

It means the first to believe among his contemporaries.  Prophet Moses received the Torah.  He was the first one to believe in it since Allah sent him on earth to convey the message of the Torah.

 

The same applies to Prophet Muhammad in Sourate 39:12. 

 
He was the first believer in the complete message of Allah, revealed through the Quran.  The first believer in the complete and final message of Allah (The Quran) was Prophet Muhammad. (my reference: Riyad el salehin).

 

Every prophet is the first believer in the revelation that was revealed to him.  It goes without saying!

 

 



Salwa this again is unislamic, since islam was the same religion revealed to all prophets, your interpretations are shooting islam in the foot.

It is better to refrain.

Seraph please stop this nonsense. We are their guests. Please remember you shall be persecuted for Him.
Dont ask! I will let you know when I have the answer!
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