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bayleaf  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote bayleaf Replybullet Topic: Convert: Magdi Allam
    Posted: 24 March 2008 at 12:48am
This may get shut down as Current Events, which I'm cool with, but I thought someone ought to broach the subject which the media is having something of a heyday with: namely the conversion of Magdi Allam to Catholicism this past Saturday Night during the Easter Vigil at St Peter's, celebrated by the Pope.
 
As a Catholic, I have mixed feelings about the conversion. 
 
I mean, we as individuals are always excited when someone converts from what we deem as False to something that we deem as True.  But Mr Allam really didn't convert, did he?  He just finally came full circle.
 
And why now?  Why spotlight Mr Allam when only a few days ago bin Laden essentially denounces the Pope as being involved in a Crudade resurgency?
 
Thousands of (non-practicing) Muslims converted to Catholicism - not to mention many, many other individuals who converted with no quasi-political endeavor in mind - this past Saturday night, and just as many, if not more, non-practicing Catholics converted to Islam over the past year.
 
Some people (and by people, I mean Catholics) are hooting and hollering saying, "Oh me, this ought to rock the Islamic world now!"
 
I'm sorry, but such a mentality ought to be ridiculed for it is nothing but ridiculous.  And if this is rocking the Islamic world, then we all need to grow up.
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Al-Cordoby  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 24 March 2008 at 1:19am
He was never a practicing Muslim in the first place
 
The difference between Muslims who convert out of Islam and non-Muslims who convert to Islam is huge
 
Priests and people of knowledge of Christianity convert to Islam, whereas you will not find a practicing Muslim who has knowledge of Islam convert to Christianity
 
That's a tremendous difference
 
Two examples of Christian priests come to mind:
 
- Yusuf Estes (USA)
 
- Idriss Tawfiq (UK)
 
 
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amoxoxoma  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote amoxoxoma Replybullet Posted: 24 March 2008 at 5:02am
Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

 
Priests and people of knowledge of Christianity convert to Islam, whereas you will not find a practicing Muslim who has knowledge of Islam convert to Christianity
 
 
 
I'm sorry al-Cordoby, but that is the most grandiose generalization I've seen you put in "print" the whole time you've been posting on WI.
 
You certainly won't find it if you never look, or if you refuse to acknowledge that a "true" muslim could, would, or has ever, converted to christianity.
 
The fact that "death to apostates" is a common refrain in Islamic countries just might have something to do with the reluctance of muslims to admit they have converted. ("But", he doth protest, "there is no compulsion in religion."
 
I could point you to any number of real cases, but many of you Muslims refuse to believe it's possible, (so of course it's not. )
 
 
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote meedo Replybullet Posted: 24 March 2008 at 5:05am
Hi bayleaf,
 
 
You have a good logic. There are people who generally have issues with their own cultures and societies. Some have inferiority complexes and some have never got to know their original faith right in teh first place. Some people had bad  experiences in their home countries that led them to snap.
 
 
This person probably is all the above. Honestly i never heared of him before . He is not as the media says ( well known , famous, prominent , etc etc) . May be he is prominent in his job in italy and the itabut certainly he wasnt a prominent Muslim.
 
The man was educated in catholic schools, believeing muslim families don't usually do that. believing muslims pray 5 times a day. he was never instructed to do that or ever did it. Theer are many signs that says that this man never practiced islam in teh first place .
 
personally i wish him all the best of happiness and success in this life and after life.
 
The incident is not rocking the islamic world at all . The man had a history of self loathing his own culture and faith. i am happy eh isnt counted one of us now.
 
All the best for him , and may catholics and muslims have peace and friendship.
 
meedo
 
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Traveller Replybullet Posted: 24 March 2008 at 6:13am
Amox:
 
al-Cordoby didn't make a what you called "grandiose generalization" statement. That man himself admitted being a non-practising muslim.
 
I can't speak for the 'true' muslim that has converted, I've never met one. But I've certainly met many converts to Islam here. And they all have one thing in common, that is, not getting 'answers' in christianity and finding it with islam, in the Noble Quran.
 
 
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Guests Replybullet Posted: 24 March 2008 at 9:00am
The Catholic Church can have him. At least we no longer don't have to worry about his constantly stabbing Muslims in the back with his pretence that he's one of us while making our lives as difficult as he possibly can.
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BookWorm  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote BookWorm Replybullet Posted: 24 March 2008 at 11:00am
Did he convert or was he being baptized in solidarity with the Catholics in the face of bin laden’s threat? I was under the impression he was doing the latter and not really the former. 
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LtTony  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote LtTony Replybullet Posted: 24 March 2008 at 2:35pm
"Some people (and by people, I mean Catholics) are hooting and hollering saying, "Oh me, this ought to rock the Islamic world now!"
 
I'm sorry, but such a mentality ought to be ridiculed for it is nothing but ridiculous.  And if this is rocking the Islamic world, then we all need to grow up."
 
Although I hadn't heard of this fellow and event, I agree with your POV bay.
 
 
"He was never a practicing Muslim in the first place...
 
The man is quoted as saying this himself, at least in the story I read.
 
"Priests and people of knowledge of Christianity convert to Islam, whereas you will not find a practicing Muslim who has knowledge of Islam convert to Christianity"
 
LOL
 
Trave wrote: "al-Cordoby didn't make a what you called "grandiose generalization" statement. That man himself admitted being a non-practising muslim."
 
Trav, amox was clearly writing about the above.
 
 
"I can't speak for the 'true' muslim that has converted, I've never met one. But I've certainly met many converts to Islam here. And they all have one thing in common, that is, not getting 'answers' in christianity and finding it with islam, in the Noble Quran."
 
Yours is simply a matter of perspective  I would characterize the converts completely different than you would.  Some people have questions and aren't getting answers?  Maybe they aren't getting the answers they want, or maybe aren't asking the right questions.
 
"At least we no longer don't have to worry about his constantly stabbing Muslims in the back with his pretence that he's one of us while making our lives as difficult as he possibly can."
 
How's that, kad? Apparently you've heard of this guy, whereas meedo and I haven't.
 
 
 
 


Edited by LtTony - 24 March 2008 at 2:42pm
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
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M.A.R.W.A.N
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote M.A.R.W.A.N Replybullet Posted: 24 March 2008 at 3:04pm
I can confirm Al-Cordoby's statement, I've never heard of a practicing muslim convert to Catholicism. Muslims might do many other things, but this isn't one of them.
 
Also, I don't understand the marketing campaign with this issue, muslims haven't lost anything (actually, I'd say we're happy when these things happen, causes us less trouble) and neither have Catholics gained.
 
edit: To be fair, I haven't heard anyone say "Oh me, this ought to rock the Islamic world now!"
 
The guy isn't big enough to do that, imagine a famous scholar would have more of an influence, but like I said, only known of clergy converting to Islam, it's very one sided that way.
 
 
p.s.  just coz a religious person from another faith converts doesn't mean he/she is more important than a non-religious person making the same decision.


Edited by M.A.R.W.A.N - 24 March 2008 at 3:08pm
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LtTony  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote LtTony Replybullet Posted: 24 March 2008 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

 
Priests and people of knowledge of Christianity convert to Islam, whereas you will not find a practicing Muslim who has knowledge of Islam convert to Christianity
 
Two examples of Christian priests come to mind:
 
- Yusuf Estes (USA)       - Idriss Tawfiq (UK) 
 
 
For those of you keeping score at home:
 
 
I was able to Google a number of muslim clerics and "scholars" who have converted to christianity, although there is nothing on their muslim "pedigree."
 
And I'm guessing the "death to apostates" doctrine that is held by some muslims tempers the number the public converts. This Allam fellow has received death threats in the past and anticipates he will receive more.
 
 
 
 
Like bay and I said, Allam's conversion doesn't amount to a hill of beans, but like amox, I think your scorekeeping has some major, major flaws. (BTW, minor detail: yusuf was a minister not a priest.)
 
 
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Guests Replybullet Posted: 24 March 2008 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by LtTony

How's that, kad? Apparently you've heard of this guy, whereas meedo and I haven't.


Well I knew who he was prior to this development, but not much more than that. He's best known for being the editor of an Italian newspaper where he's regularly written articles putting the spotlight on Italy's Muslim population; accusing them of being anti-Semites, not being loyal to Italy, supporting terrorism, that Muslims who were against the republication of the notorious Muhammad cartoons don't belong in Europe, that the building of Mosques in Europe to be banned because they're being run by Al-Qaida operatives. Basically he's following the tradition of 'Professional Muslims' like Ed Hussain, Ghayasuddin Siddiqui and Yasmin Alibhai-Brown who act as posterboys for right-wing thinktanks and whose only source of legitimacy is their claim to being part of the community they do nothing but harshly and unconstructively criticise.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote M.A.R.W.A.N Replybullet Posted: 24 March 2008 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by LtTony

 
For those of you keeping score at home:
 
 
I was able to Google a number of muslim clerics and "scholars" who have converted to christianity, although there is nothing on their muslim "pedigree."
 
 
 
Your list above didn't contain any muslim "scholars" who have converted to christianity. As for muslim clerics, they don't exist; unless you're referring the fringes of Shia, which can't be coz none of these people were/are Shia to begin with...
 
As a result, your list is absolutely useless and doesn't help your point of view.
 
Actually it strengthens ours.


Edited by M.A.R.W.A.N - 24 March 2008 at 4:45pm
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 24 March 2008 at 5:33pm

 

 People who convert to Islam from Christianity risk nothing in asmuch as their quality of life, friends, their place in society, in most cases their family and even their employment prospects are unchanged. However the opposite is most often the case for Christian converts from Islam who face being completely ostracized by the entire Islamic community even in western countries. But in many islamic countries, they face demotion from their job, loose their friends, their family disown them, they become nothing more than an object of scorn and ridicule their very lives are even placed at risk, and in most cases, there is no legislative body of authority who takes their plight seriously enough to even warrant them any means of safe haven or protection.

 So when people talk about convertions from one side to another or that no-true Muslim would ever convert. Perhaps if the culture of fear and persecution wasn't the norm. Then and only then would it be possible to evaluate who are real Muslims from  those who put up and shut-up yet believe absolutely nothing in Islam.
 
 Again Muslim converts have nothing to loose . Christian converts have everything to loose. Which is the harder choice ?  Further, what demonstrates the greater act of Faith ?
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote M.A.R.W.A.N Replybullet Posted: 24 March 2008 at 5:53pm
"Again Muslim converts have nothing to loose . "
 
 
Hey Damo, I'm guessing you're not familiar with the stories of muslim converts, but most face serious losses - especially our women. Discrimination is the least of their problems....
 
Hiding their situation, it's just not nice and worse, doesn't solve anything. Anyway, they're our people and we're supposed to take care of them.
 
 
p.s. here you go, conversion stories, now you can't say you didn't know ==> http://www.islamonline.net/english/journey/journey.shtml


Edited by M.A.R.W.A.N - 24 March 2008 at 5:57pm
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