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jamilahz  
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bullet Posted: 11 April 2008 at 12:13am
Originally posted by LtTony

well perhaps everything got to loosey goosey and the Quran was sent to put it back into line :)
 
Could be.  But Mohammed and the Quran not believable at all, in my opinion.  So I gotta go with scripture and the early church fathers.
 
 


Surah 109 Al-Kafiroon

Say, "O disbelievers,
I do not worship what you worship.
Nor are you worshippers of what I worship.
Nor will I be a worshiper of what you worship.
Nor will you be worshipers of what I worship.
For you is your religion, and for me is my religion.
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MeInUSA
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bullet Posted: 11 April 2008 at 3:42am
1 Timothy 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; 5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.
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MeInUSA
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bullet Posted: 11 April 2008 at 3:47am
Amen, Damo.  Muslims constantly ask Christians why do you believe this way and why do you not believe that way.  We show them why, then they'll either say the Bible has been changed or they argue this isn't the way we believe.  They also always say Christians just believe whatever they choose to believe. 
 
I say, why can't we all believe as we choose to believe and just respect each other?
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bullet Posted: 11 April 2008 at 6:17am
Originally posted by LtTony

 
Then Jesus said, "It's not what you eat that defiles you ...", referring to the earlier prohibition on pork. What do you make of that?
 
I'm not sure I understand, but yes, Our Lord was referring to the "earlier"(?) prohibition on pork.
 
First God forbid pork. Then Jesus overruled God by saying "it's not what you eat the defiles you..".
 
Is that it?
In life, be like a traveller. Take only what you need
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Traveller  
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bullet Posted: 11 April 2008 at 6:24am
Originally posted by MeInUSA

Amen, Damo.  Muslims constantly ask Christians why do you believe this way and why do you not believe that way.  We show them why, then they'll either say the Bible has been changed or they argue this isn't the way we believe.  They also always say Christians just believe whatever they choose to believe. 
 
I say, why can't we all believe as we choose to believe and just respect each other?
 
Well.. this is the place for Muslims to constantly ask Christians that. 
 
Now let me ask you. Why do you eat pork when Jesus himself don't? Don't you want to love Jesus to the extent that what is distasteful to him is also distasteful to you?
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Damo808  
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bullet Posted: 11 April 2008 at 8:11am
Originally posted by M.A.R.W.A.N

Evading like this makes me feel you have more to hide than explain.

Do any of you know who wrote those verses?
 
 Marwan... no-ones being evasive. The thread topic is about Pork, and whether Christians are right or wrong in eating it. The Christian argument has been put forward. And now your questioning the validity of the testimony supporting the argument, which is IMO a completely different thread matter altogether. If you want to start a thread regarding the legitimacy of biblical passages then do so. But when justification by scripture is asked for when questioning anything Christians do or practice in their belief and is then provided, feel free to offer your own interpretation. Or if you do not accept the relevent passage given, simply just say you don't believe that portion of scripture to be valid. I'm sure you'll accept that often when doubts are raised regarding the validity of the Bible its rarely something on here which can be resolved, far less resolved within a few posts on a thread altogether different from the topic thread.
 Besides, I've already provided you a passage from the OT which states quite clearly that the old covenant would be made void, and a new one made, different from the former.
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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M.A.R.W.A.N
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bullet Posted: 11 April 2008 at 9:59am
Hello Damo,
 
I haven't dealt w/ you much, so I'll be respectful in my rebuttal. Personally, it bothers me none that Christians eat pork, if you believe it's sanctioned that's good enough for me.
 
But let's clarify, those verses Westwind pointed to are very much on topic. The next logical step would be to verify them - and so that's what I'd like, a verification.
 
So far, no one knows who wrote those verses, right?
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Damo808  
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bullet Posted: 11 April 2008 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by M.A.R.W.A.N

Hello Damo,
 
I haven't dealt w/ you much, so I'll be respectful in my rebuttal. Personally, it bothers me none that Christians eat pork, if you believe it's sanctioned that's good enough for me.
 
But let's clarify, those verses Westwind pointed to are very much on topic. The next logical step would be to verify them - and so that's what I'd like, a verification.
 
So far, no one knows who wrote those verses, right?
 
 Marwan.... The background of the Bible is quite open, and has been discussed here at length a few times, and i'm a relatively new member here though no doubt it has been thoroughly recycled before even my joining. So forgive me if i see this as a bit of a cop-out. The gospels remember, came from a well maintained and well ordered early Church which was without taint. The oral gospel was easy to preserve intact purely because it was still in its infancy, the writings of the gospels when written most before the end of the 1st century were the meat of what Jesus Ministry was. It held true to the oral gospel. Unless you maintain that in only 70years or so since Christ's assention (not to be confused with the last of the apostals) the oral gospel was just too loosely transmuted forward to be trustworthy, which i think is nonesense. Seventy years really is nothing.
 
 Now where does this leave debating between us ? For every time a Christian uses a verse from the Bible that they must also attatch in brackets the verification of each verse.. C'mon.
 
 That would be like Christians simply saying.. You know what.. regardless of what Muhhamud claims, Can you prove it was Gabriel who spoke with him. Did anyone else see Gabriel ? Did anyone else hear Gabriel ? All Biblical Prophets of God i've read about up until Muhammud had the testimony of God to prove displayed in Mirracles before the faces of all who doubted. Now i could go on... But then, ofcourse you can see how the Thread topic trails.
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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LtTony  
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bullet Posted: 11 April 2008 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by Traveller

Originally posted by LtTony

 
Then Jesus said, "It's not what you eat that defiles you ...", referring to the earlier prohibition on pork. What do you make of that?
 
I'm not sure I understand, but yes, Our Lord was referring to the "earlier"(?) prohibition on pork.
 
First God forbid pork. Then Jesus overruled God by saying "it's not what you eat the defiles you..".
 
Is that it?
 
No not exactly.  I'll try later to refer back to some earlier posts.  But essentially Jesus taught and his earliest disciples preached that food unclean under mosiac law jews, was clean under the New Covenant christians. 
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
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bullet Posted: 11 April 2008 at 11:13pm
Originally posted by M.A.R.W.A.N

Evading like this makes me feel you have more to hide than explain.


Nope.

Originally posted by M.A.R.W.A.N

Do any of you know who wrote those verses?


Luke, the companion of the Apostle Paul.

Who is Luke?


Edited by Westwind - 11 April 2008 at 11:15pm
He is risen! Alleluia! Mark 16:1-6
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devd  
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bullet Posted: 11 April 2008 at 11:54pm
[QUOTE=Westwind]

Self-appointed Apostle, Paul./QUOTE]

Fixed that for ya.




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bullet Posted: 12 April 2008 at 12:06am
Originally posted by devd

[QUOTE=Westwind]

Self-appointed Apostle, Paul./QUOTE]

Fixed that for ya.



It wasn't broken.  Unlike your post.
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devd  
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bullet Posted: 12 April 2008 at 12:25am
Originally posted by Westwind


Originally posted by devd

[QUOTE=Westwind]

Self-appointed Apostle, Paul./QUOTE]

Fixed that for ya.

It wasn't broken.  Unlike your post.



No, sorry, it was broken. It's an historical fact, backed with literature both contemporary to Paul and of scholarly origin over the past couple-thousand years. As if anyone needs a scholar to tell them that a guy who strolls up to the actual 12 apostles and says, "hay guyz! I'm Saul of Tarsus and I'm an Apostle of Jesus, cuz, ya know, I talked to him and stuff!" is self-appointed.

But then again...I'm off topic and I apologize.



Edited by devd - 12 April 2008 at 12:27am
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Westwind  
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bullet Posted: 12 April 2008 at 12:36am
devd, I could just as easily say something similar about Mohammad.

devd, who is the Christian here? You or me?  I know who Paul is. So did the remaining Apostles.  They accepted Paul.  This has been known by Christians since it happened, and as they Early Church Fathers (ECF) attested. The ECF's didn't challenge Paul as a false apostle.  They considered Paul an Apostle chosen by Jesus on the road to Damascus. If anyone could challenge Paul, it would be them.  Even the Apostle Peter writes about Paul, without rejecting him!

You need to quit relying on Islam for your Christian history and Christian theology.  It's like asking a fish to teach you to fly.

Edited by Westwind - 12 April 2008 at 12:36am
He is risen! Alleluia! Mark 16:1-6
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