Hall of FameHall of Fame  Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp  chatChat
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
InterReligious Dialogue
 Whyislam.org Forums : General : InterReligious Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Flesh of swine(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 19
Author Message
jamilahz  
Graduate
Graduate
Avatar
in exile
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 2176
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 12 April 2008 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by MeInUSA

Originally posted by jamilahz

Any questions I ask are to get people to think.. I came to Islam because I found major faults in Christian doctrine.  In fact I've learned more about my old religion since I reverted... than I knew before.  
 
Yes, but you need to understand that many people have left Islam & came to Christianity for the very same reasons.  So it is only a matter of someone's opinion versus someone else's opinion.  If we could all see it this way, the world would be a much more peaceful place to live.


I need to understand?  Thanks for the direction.  lol...
www.hudastore.com

www.theoneislam.com
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
jamilahz  
Graduate
Graduate
Avatar
in exile
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 2176
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 12 April 2008 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by Westwind

Originally posted by M.A.R.W.A.N

I didn't miss anything. Since when do I adopt the doubtful standards of others as a means for my beliefs? That would be insincere, and as I'm sure you were taught when young, God doesn't accept insincerity.

Please don't derail the subject with Qur'anic fiction, the comparison needs serious refinement and is off-topic. Even if you were right, it wouldn't elevate the problems I've presented.


LOL! "Quranic fiction"?.  When will you stop with your similar "Biblical fiction"?

The issue is extremely relevant to the OP, because if we can't trust New Testament guidance on the replacement of ceremonial law, by grace, what can we trust? This is your baseline argument: If the NT is corrupt, then we must follow the Quran.

You want us to accept the Quran's superiority when every symptom of Mohammad's 'visions' indicate serious mental illness?  You want us to accept the Quran, because a lot of people memorized it?  You want us to reject the Bible, when you have no evidence of a conspiracy against it, nor evidence of a conspiracy to create a corrupt 'revelation'? 
Yet when we give you the historical facts, you ignore the facts, call it fiction, and run away. Many, many, highly educated Biblical scholars have researched this subject and they have 'refined' the evidence.  You oversimplified the argument against the New Testament scriptures, then disregarded the evidence just because Luke didn't autograph is work?  Anyone can do that, and as researchers have shown, the stylistic and  grammatical evidence for a match to the author of the Gospel of Luke is strong confirming evidence, even more so than an signature or claim of authorship.  The acceptance of contemporary Christians, is another fact.  But that's just 'fiction' to you. 


We believe that the Quran is the word of God, passed to Muhammad through the angel Gabriel.   Do you believe that the bible is the literal words of God?
www.hudastore.com

www.theoneislam.com
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
M.A.R.W.A.N
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Dragon rescuer, Virgin slayer.
Religion: Unknown(Unknown)
Posts: 3108
Forum Rating: 134
bullet Posted: 12 April 2008 at 9:31pm
Now you've succumb to insulting my Prophet pbuh when I have neither insulted nor disprespected your holy ones.

But my Lord, your response makes me think of Allah's answer to your claim. In one part, Allah recounts the sayings of old, and they sound so much like you:


....And they [the Arab pagans] say, ‘O you to whom the Reminder has been revealed! You are most surely insane!.....

In another part of the Qur'an, Allah responds...


...I swear by the pen and what the angels write,
By the grace of your Lord you are not mad.
And most surely you shall have a reward never to be cut off.
And most surely you conform (yourself) to sublime morality.
So you shall see, and they (too) shall see,
Which of you is afflicted with madness.
Surely your Lord best knows him who errs from His way, and He best knows the followers of the right course.
So do not yield to the rejecters.
They wish that you should compromise so they (too) may compromise...


We will never follow you like this because you have the one prevailing defect that makes it impossible.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
LtTony  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4148
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 12 April 2008 at 9:38pm

"Now you've succumb to insulting my Prophet..."

 
Where exactly did Westie do that?
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Westwind  
Undergraduate
Undergraduate

Religion: Christian(Non-Denom.)
Posts: 1669
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 12 April 2008 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by M.A.R.W.A.N

Now you've succumb to insulting my Prophet pbuh when I have neither insulted nor disrespected your holy ones.


Insulted your prophet how? By taking the symptoms given in your own writing, and comparing them to known illness?  If a prophet is going to claim divine communication, I've got every right, and indeed the responsibility to verify his credentials, including any illness that might affect his claim.

As for not insulting my Savior, you go far beyond that by insinuating his Gospel is something other than true without any proof to the contrary. You insult the Apostles, because they accepted Paul, you insult the Early Church Fathers who accepted Luke and the Book of Acts, and ultimately, you do insult my religion by saying it was either corrupted or created in corruption, again without proof.  If anyone has the right to indignation, I'd say it is the Christian

So you can avoid the facts:
Tradition and scriptural investigation accept Luke as the author.
And bacon is the ultimate comfort food, made clean by God, for our enjoyment.
He is risen! Alleluia! Mark 16:1-6
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
M.A.R.W.A.N
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Dragon rescuer, Virgin slayer.
Religion: Unknown(Unknown)
Posts: 3108
Forum Rating: 134
bullet Posted: 12 April 2008 at 11:34pm
You are going to extremism. Essentially, you're accussing me of doing far worse than insulting your religion (which I have not done) by the mere fact that I reject your beliefs (peacefully I might add).

You carry a dangerous mind.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
LtTony  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4148
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 12 April 2008 at 11:45pm
 
You continue with the personal attacks.  "Dangerous mind"????  My foot. 
 
But back to your earlier fabrication ----   where EXACTLY did Westwind insult the prophet.  You made that unsubstantiated and offensive claim, now back it up.  It seems to me that your mouth has written a check that your fanny can't cash.  Maybe they'll close the thread and bail you out (again). 
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Westwind  
Undergraduate
Undergraduate

Religion: Christian(Non-Denom.)
Posts: 1669
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 12 April 2008 at 11:59pm
Originally posted by M.A.R.W.A.N

You are going to extremism. Essentially, you're accussing me of doing far worse than insulting your religion (which I have not done) by the mere fact that I reject your beliefs (peacefully I might add).

You carry a dangerous mind.


Muslims often freely say things about Jesus and Christianity that when said about Islam or Mohammad create the reaction that you felt.  We know what your hot buttons are, and usually stay away from them, but Muslims seem oblivious to the effect of their words on others. The point I am making, is that I can reject your beliefs peacefully, but I am not allowed to explain why, because if I do, you feel I've insulted your prophet.  Is it better to reject Islam without reason?

I have to ask:

1. If the Apostles and Christians of the first two centuries, were satisfied that Luke is the author, why is that not satisfactory to you, 2000 years later?  They did either know Luke, or those who knew him. 

2. How is not accepting their testimony, any different from not accepting the Muslim traditions handed down from those first Muslims who knew Mohammad, which claim so much for the Quran?

A dangerous mind?  How so? I only follow these dictum:
Challenge authority.
Trust, but verify.
He is risen! Alleluia! Mark 16:1-6
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Damo808  
Mureed
Mureed

Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4262
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 13 April 2008 at 12:05am
Originally posted by Westwind



As for not insulting my Savior, you go far beyond that by insinuating his Gospel is something other than true without any proof to the contrary. You insult the Apostles, because they accepted Paul, you insult the Early Church Fathers who accepted Luke and the Book of Acts, and ultimately, you do insult my religion by saying it was either corrupted or created in corruption, again without proof.  If anyone has the right to indignation, I'd say it is the Christian

 
 
 
 Westie.... I doubt if you could have spelled it out any clearer. A common phenomenon, the complete inability to fathom their own arrogance. 
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
LtTony  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4148
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 13 April 2008 at 12:08am
marwan wrote: "Personally, it bothers me none that Christians eat pork...."
 
Why is that?  And how does it bother you?  Does this "bother" apply to all faiths and cultures that have a diet different than muslims?
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
M.A.R.W.A.N
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Dragon rescuer, Virgin slayer.
Religion: Unknown(Unknown)
Posts: 3108
Forum Rating: 134
bullet Posted: 13 April 2008 at 12:24am
Originally posted by LtTony

marwan wrote: "Personally, it bothers me none that Christians eat pork...."


 

Why is that?  And how does it bother you?  Does this "bother" apply to all faiths and cultures that have a diet different than muslims?



For fun, I fattened a key pronoun. Don't ever ask me why I compare you to Bush.

********************************

Westwind,

You're repeating yourself which leads me to believe you have nothing else to offer.

G.,

I don't even know what to say to you, except patting him on the back doesn't help his fallacy.


No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Forum Cop
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Chief Moderator
Religion: Unknown(Unknown)
Posts: 339
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 13 April 2008 at 12:36am
..and around and around she goes....where she stops: only Forum Cop knows
 
finis.
 
Tips on how to stop being sarcastic:
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 19
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums version 8.03
Copyright ©2001-2006 Web Wiz Guide
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed by members of the Whyislam Forum do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of the Whyislam Team, or any of its subsidiaries, or parent organizations.