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MedGirl
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2008 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by Mad Cat

Don’t we know today that there are benefits to be had from eating pork?


Just like how people have found health benefits for drinking red wine?

I'd say the risks and unhealthiness outweigh the benefits.

People will always find excuses though.
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Mad Cat  
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2008 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by MedGirl

Just like how people have found health benefits for drinking red wine?

I'd say the risks and unhealthiness outweigh the benefits.

People will always find excuses though.

This is where I would say common sense comes in.

In the case of both pork and red wine, some is good for you even on a regular basis but excessive consumption is bad. This is not just limited to these two things either. Excessive consumption of Beef and Coke will be bad for you too. I'm not even sure if any amount of Coke is considered good for you but the Quran doesn’t say anything about that.

The Bible says many times that drunkenness is wrong, full stop (period for the Americans) but it also acknowledges that wine does have its benefits too.

I personally don’t subscribe to the pros vs cons, scales system here. Intoxication (I assume this is what we are getting at) is merely the product of a deeper issue.

 

Between Waheed and Medgirl we have a slight conflict.

Waheed said ‘The Qur'an says that God allows what is good and beneficial, and forbids what is unbeneficial and disgusting’

But Medgirl said Just like how people have found health benefits for drinking red wine?’

Do Muslims refute the claim of benefits of pork and wine in moderation? If not then how do we equate Allah forbidding what we know does have benefit?


Test everything. Hold on to the good. 1 Thessalonians 5:21
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2008 at 2:00pm

every food is unclean

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MedGirl
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2008 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by Mad Cat

Originally posted by MedGirl

Just like how people have found health benefits for drinking red wine?

I'd say the risks and unhealthiness outweigh the benefits.

People will always find excuses though.

This is where I would say common sense comes in.

In the case of both pork and red wine, some is good for you even on a regular basis but excessive consumption is bad. This is not just limited to these two things either. Excessive consumption of Beef and Coke will be bad for you too. I'm not even sure if any amount of Coke is considered good for you but the Quran doesn’t say anything about that.

The Bible says many times that drunkenness is wrong, full stop (period for the Americans) but it also acknowledges that wine does have its benefits too.

I personally don’t subscribe to the pros vs cons, scales system here. Intoxication (I assume this is what we are getting at) is merely the product of a deeper issue.

 

Between Waheed and Medgirl we have a slight conflict.

Waheed said ‘The Qur'an says that God allows what is good and beneficial, and forbids what is unbeneficial and disgusting’

But Medgirl said Just like how people have found health benefits for drinking red wine?’

Do Muslims refute the claim of benefits of pork and wine in moderation? If not then how do we equate Allah forbidding what we know does have benefit?



You misunderstood me. My point in asking: 'just like people have found health benefits for drinking red wine?' was to show that people will always find excuses for sinful practices.

I agree completely with what Waheed said. Eating or drinking forbidden things in little amounts is sinful because it goes against the Quran. Its forbidden because the risks outweigh the so called benefits that people have found, therefore making it unbeneficial. Those were the excuses that I was talking about.


Edited by MedGirl - 26 March 2008 at 2:06pm
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2008 at 2:04pm
They ask you about alcohol and gambling. Say: in both there is great evil as well as some benefit for man; but the evil they cause is greater than the benefit they bring. (2:219)
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Mad Cat  
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2008 at 2:16pm

Med Girl, This sounds like a ‘do as your told because I say so’ kind of thing.

Do you accept/reject that there are health benefits to be had from drinking small amounts of wine?

The ‘outweighing’ thing makes no sense because it completely removes one’s ability to think. Just because this man gets drunk on wine, that man cannot drink it at all!!! What about the internet? It is very likely that more harm is done through it than good but should we not be allowed to use it because some sicko wants to post vulgar images at someone else’s expense?

My point is that we have to use our intelligence and self control and I believe the Bible encourages this way of thinking.

Test everything. Hold on to the good. 1 Thessalonians 5:21
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2008 at 2:27pm
I found this Biblical text, from the NIV [2002 edition]

"And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud, it is unclean for you. you must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses, they are unclean for you" [lev. 11:7-8].

As for your first question

Why would people corrupt the word of God to include other animals?


I did not mean to imply that the dietary prohibitions had been distorted. Maybe it was, I really don't know, I was simply speaking in a general manner. From the Islamic viewpoint, Jesus Christ was not God, we believe this doctrine was conjured after the time of Jesus. I hope that serves as an example.

The Qur'an itself does assert that the prohibitions as well as the orders it contains are to our benefit, not necessarily beneficial to God.

Also, I would like to say that the Qur'an claims itself to be the final book, i.e. the last step in the evolution of religious teaching. You have correctly pointed out that the Bible asks people to avoid getting drunk. The Qur'an says, well, don't drink at all.

In early Muslim history, it was allowed for people to drink. The Qur'an simply said to not come to prayer drunk. This forced Muslims to cut down, as many cannot simply stop "cold turkey. After this discipline worked, then we have the final prohibition, as in the Quranic verse cited by Kadaveri above.
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2008 at 2:41pm
Not really on topic, but who cares about the minimal health benefits of drinking red wine?  You can get those same benefits from grape juice.
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2008 at 2:45pm
Genesis1:29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.
 
 


Edited by struggle - 26 March 2008 at 3:07pm
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MedGirl
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2008 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by Mad Cat

Med Girl, This sounds like a ‘do as your told because I say so’ kind of thing.

Do you accept/reject that there are health benefits to be had from drinking small amounts of wine?

The ‘outweighing’ thing makes no sense because it completely removes one’s ability to think. Just because this man gets drunk on wine, that man cannot drink it at all!!! What about the internet? It is very likely that more harm is done through it than good but should we not be allowed to use it because some sicko wants to post vulgar images at someone else’s expense?

My point is that we have to use our intelligence and self control and I believe the Bible encourages this way of thinking.


The Quran ayah that Kadaveri posted says it all.

We also have to remember that God created our minds and gave us our intelligence, with that, we should put trust in the verses coming from God and not from some study about the benefits of pork.


Edited by MedGirl - 26 March 2008 at 7:29pm
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mai moslemah  
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2008 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by Mad Cat

Med Girl, This sounds like a ‘do as your told because I say so’ kind of thing.

Do you accept/reject that there are health benefits to be had from drinking small amounts of wine?

The ‘outweighing’ thing makes no sense because it completely removes one’s ability to think. Just because this man gets drunk on wine, that man cannot drink it at all!!! What about the internet? It is very likely that more harm is done through it than good but should we not be allowed to use it because some sicko wants to post vulgar images at someone else’s expense?

My point is that we have to use our intelligence and self control and I believe the Bible encourages this way of thinking.

 
 
What this hs to do with intelligence ?!
 
Actually because we use our intelligence we now know that God's word is the truth.
 
Allah prohibted alcohol for our own good ...if u don't see any benefit from this, this is your problem but i tell you the rate of crimes and adultery increases when wine become common... there is countries who put restriction on solding alcohol because of its abuse ..if human can put control over their desires so easily we would be living in paradise
But don`t you see?that i am truely free? this piece of scarf on me;i wear so proudly to preserve my dignity,modesty & integrity....why can`t i just be me??? "i am the one who is free!!!!

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MeInUSA
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2008 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by Mad Cat

Originally posted by MedGirl

Just like how people have found health benefits for drinking red wine?

I'd say the risks and unhealthiness outweigh the benefits.

People will always find excuses though.

This is where I would say common sense comes in.

In the case of both pork and red wine, some is good for you even on a regular basis but excessive consumption is bad. This is not just limited to these two things either. Excessive consumption of Beef and Coke will be bad for you too. I'm not even sure if any amount of Coke is considered good for you but the Quran doesn’t say anything about that.

The Bible says many times that drunkenness is wrong, full stop (period for the Americans) but it also acknowledges that wine does have its benefits too.

I personally don’t subscribe to the pros vs cons, scales system here. Intoxication (I assume this is what we are getting at) is merely the product of a deeper issue.

 

Between Waheed and Medgirl we have a slight conflict.

Waheed said ‘The Qur'an says that God allows what is good and beneficial, and forbids what is unbeneficial and disgusting’

But Medgirl said Just like how people have found health benefits for drinking red wine?’

Do Muslims refute the claim of benefits of pork and wine in moderation? If not then how do we equate Allah forbidding what we know does have benefit?


 
Didn't Jesus tell us to do all things in moderation and we would be okay?  Seems like I remember reading that once upon a time.
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MeInUSA
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2008 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by MedGirl

Originally posted by Mad Cat

Originally posted by MedGirl

Just like how people have found health benefits for drinking red wine?

I'd say the risks and unhealthiness outweigh the benefits.

People will always find excuses though.

This is where I would say common sense comes in.

In the case of both pork and red wine, some is good for you even on a regular basis but excessive consumption is bad. This is not just limited to these two things either. Excessive consumption of Beef and Coke will be bad for you too. I'm not even sure if any amount of Coke is considered good for you but the Quran doesn’t say anything about that.

The Bible says many times that drunkenness is wrong, full stop (period for the Americans) but it also acknowledges that wine does have its benefits too.

I personally don’t subscribe to the pros vs cons, scales system here. Intoxication (I assume this is what we are getting at) is merely the product of a deeper issue.

 

Between Waheed and Medgirl we have a slight conflict.

Waheed said ‘The Qur'an says that God allows what is good and beneficial, and forbids what is unbeneficial and disgusting’

But Medgirl said Just like how people have found health benefits for drinking red wine?’

Do Muslims refute the claim of benefits of pork and wine in moderation? If not then how do we equate Allah forbidding what we know does have benefit?



You misunderstood me. My point in asking: 'just like people have found health benefits for drinking red wine?' was to show that people will always find excuses for sinful practices.

I agree completely with what Waheed said. Eating or drinking forbidden things in little amounts is sinful because it goes against the Quran. Its forbidden because the risks outweigh the so called benefits that people have found, therefore making it unbeneficial. Those were the excuses that I was talking about.
 
Drinking a glass or two of wine does not make you drunk.  I wouldn't call helping to clean out your arteries a small benefit or an excuse.  I guess everyone believes differently.
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hannah114  
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2008 at 7:29pm
ok, I guess i would like to know what is the main reason people drink alcohol?  if there was an equivalent that tasted about the same that had no actual alcohol in it, do you think people would choose it? I would guess not, as alcohol does have an effect on the brain, and people look for those effects. people were drinking these things long before those articles about health benefits came around, and if its so harmless then why is there a minimum drinking age?
 
 
and yes, I have seen people drink one or two glasses of wine and show intoxication
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