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LtTony  
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bullet Posted: 27 March 2008 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by MedGirl

Originally posted by MadCat

I understand what you are saying but I just think ‘We don't question the order. We just obey.’ is very dangerous.


Just wondering, how is it dangerous when we have that kind of mindset for God's orders?
 
I'm surprised and a little shocked that it has to be explained.  But, oh well....
 
The first thing the comes to mind is a person maythink they have the authority from God to be the judge, jury and executioner.  Some of those folks even start growing a huge ego and practically place themselves as equal to God.  People of all religions have been guilty of this.  I suppose that is why the danger is so well known -- at least to most people.
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
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hamayoun  
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bullet Posted: 27 March 2008 at 5:28pm
The first thing the comes to mind is a person maythink they have the authority from God to be the judge, jury and executioner.

We are talking here about obedience to God, not about implementing his laws.  BIG DIFFERENCE.  What you are are describing is being implemented by the leaders of powerful countries who are actively BEING judge, jury and executioners in the world today.
May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

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LtTony  
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bullet Posted: 27 March 2008 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by Mad Cat

Originally posted by Traveller

Christians. Peace to you all.
 
Thou shall not eat the flesh of swine.
 
Why can't you obey a simple order?

IMO the concept of clean and unclean animals was done away with along with Jesus’ death and resurrection. We could not keep the requirements of the law (see the OT) so God sent Jesus to offer us grace, as was His plan all along. As Jesus explains in Matthew 15 it is not what goes into someone that makes them unclean but what comes out.

One question in return:

Why are Muslims so rigid in keeping the order not to eat piggy products but don’t seem bothered by all the other similar laws of other animals mentioned in the OT. Why one and not all?

 
It (OT mosiac law) is not ordered for Christians.  If it were, christians would require cirmcumscion, couldn't eat rabbits (I think) and wouldn't be able to light a fire on the sabbath.  Oh yeah, the early believers quit worshipping on the jewish sabbath and conducted their services on The Lord's Day, Sunday.
 
I know I'm wasting my time providing links to help explain it, but here goes:
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=164482&highlight=pork
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=134121&highlight=pork
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=106664&highlight=pork
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=87915&highlight=pork
http://forums.catholic.com/search.php?searchid=1414859
 
A Google search in general, and a search of christian sites provide the basic answers.  Earlier I provided links to threads on this board where some of the very same people participated, and some of the exact (cut-and-paste) polemics were regurgitated.


Edited by LtTony - 27 March 2008 at 5:40pm
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
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bullet Posted: 27 March 2008 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by hamayoun

The first thing the comes to mind is a person maythink they have the authority from God to be the judge, jury and executioner.

We are talking here about obedience to God, not about implementing his laws.  BIG DIFFERENCE.  What you are are describing is being implemented by the leaders of powerful countries who are actively BEING judge, jury and executioners in the world today.
 
Well if you want to derail the topic and bring politics into it, have a ball.  I'm talking about scriptures, and the supposed punishment (through religious authorities) for violating prohibitions.
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
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bullet Posted: 27 March 2008 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by Mad Cat

This is good. Now the questions: What about other animals that eat similar food?

What if you eat good quality pork and cook it well?

Read 2:67-73 of the Qur'an. We're taught that when God commands something (like don't eat pork) then we should say we hear and obey, rather than trying to outsmart Him by coming up with excuses for not following.

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hamayoun  
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bullet Posted: 27 March 2008 at 5:46pm
Tony, this whole thread is about obeying God and not taking of those things he has forbidden.  This thread is NOT about punishment, no-one brought that up.  So again, what is scary about people wanting to obey God and not wanting to take of the things he has forbidden?  Traditionally, even in non muslims countries, such a person was called a 'God fearing' person and respected.
May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

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bullet Posted: 27 March 2008 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by waheed1

I have read in the Bible itself that it[pig] is considered a filthy animal. The Qur'an says that God allows what is good and beneficial, and forbids what is unbeneficial and disgusting.[Khabaa'ith].

I know many Christians who avoid pork because the Bible does not have Jesus ever eating it.
 
"Many christians"?  In the west?  It is prefectly OK for a christian to abstain from any food or drink.  They are just not required to for salvation.
 
The "filthy animal" redux (modern pork is as healthy as any other meat):
 
"It is the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate."  According to Dr. Naik, humans who consume chops, ribs, ham, bacon, etc. are more inclined to pursue wife swapping, LOL.
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
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bullet Posted: 27 March 2008 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by LtTony

I'm surprised and a little shocked that it has to be explained.  But, oh well....
 
The first thing the comes to mind is a person maythink they have the authority from God to be the judge, jury and executioner.  Some of those folks even start growing a huge ego and practically place themselves as equal to God.  People of all religions have been guilty of this.  I suppose that is why the danger is so well known -- at least to most people.


I don't see what that has to do with my question... I asked Mad Cat why he thinks its a dangerous mindset to obey the commands of God, when He is afterall the Creator of the universe and everything within.


Originally posted by LtTony

Originally posted by hamayoun

The first thing the comes to mind is a person maythink they have the authority from God to be the judge, jury and executioner.

We are talking here about obedience to God, not about implementing his laws.  BIG DIFFERENCE.  What you are are describing is being implemented by the leaders of powerful countries who are actively BEING judge, jury and executioners in the world today.
 
Well if you want to derail the topic and bring politics into it, have a ball.  I'm talking about scriptures, and the supposed punishment (through religious authorities) for violating prohibitions.

He's was not derailing it, he was bringing it back to my question.
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bullet Posted: 27 March 2008 at 5:55pm
"Tony, this whole thread is about obeying God and not taking of those things he has forbidden." 
 
I am sorry to have to disagree.  The OP states it is about the flesh of swine.  But suit yourself.
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bullet Posted: 27 March 2008 at 5:59pm
The thread is about obeying God in respect of the ruling of the flesh of swine.  Please correct me if I am wrong.  Again: why should anyone be bothered if a muslim wants to avoid eating the flesh of swine for no reason other than God orders us not to do so in the Quran?
May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

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bullet Posted: 27 March 2008 at 6:00pm
I don't see what that has to do with my question... I asked Mad Cat why he thinks its a dangerous mindset to obey the commands of God, when He is afterall the Creator of the universe and everything within.
 
Well, that is indeed unfortunate.
 
Let me phrase it this way -- with all due respect:  The Islamic prohibition against pork IS NOT the word of God.  It is a matter of opinion.  Just as it is for christian doctrine.
AS I EXPLAINED EARLIER, some people feel they are intitled to punish those who THEY THINK are God's orders.  It is dangerous, because punishment is best left to God.  That is our opinion.  You don't have to accept it, but you should be able to understand the concepts(s).
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
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hamayoun  
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bullet Posted: 27 March 2008 at 6:05pm
Now YOU are derailing the thread.  Until you did so, no-one even mentioned the word 'punish'.  Please give an answer to the question we keep asking: why do some people have a problem with muslims trying to follow OUR Quran (not asking you to believe in it) and not eat pork, solely on the basis of it being in the Quran?
May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

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LtTony  
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bullet Posted: 27 March 2008 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by hamayoun

The thread is about obeying God in respect of the ruling of the flesh of swine.  Please correct me if I am wrong.  Again: why should anyone be bothered if a muslim wants to avoid eating the flesh of swine for no reason other than God orders us not to do so in the Quran?
 
Oh boy, another thread where no one is understanding the other person...
 
You ask: "why should anyone be bothered if a muslim wants to avoid eating the flesh of swine..."
 
Uh, no one here.  Including us christians.  Do what you want. 
The question in the OP was (read carefully):
 
 
Christians. Peace to you all.
 
Thou shall not eat the flesh of swine.
 
Why can't you (Christians) obey a simple order?
 
That is why I'm trying to keep the topic on track.  Because the whole point of the thread goes off the rails.  Now, if the answers have been satisfactory to you, then I suppose we can kick the conversation up a notch.
 
 
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
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LtTony  
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bullet Posted: 27 March 2008 at 6:08pm
"Now YOU are derailing the thread.  Until you did so, no-one even mentioned the word 'punish'."
 
 
Good grief.  I only used that word to answer mia's(?) question.  The best way to stop the silliness that is evolving is to stick with the question of the OP:  why do christians eat pork?
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
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