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InterReligious Dialogue
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Aviatrix  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Aviatrix Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2008 at 2:06am
As Muslims we should be biased towards justice, even if it is against our brothers. No justice, no peace. Life is sacred in Islam. Human life. The lives of our brothers in Islam, and the lives of our Jewish brothers too.
 
For the Qur'an says: O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.  (4:135)
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote algebra Replybullet Posted: 07 April 2008 at 9:11pm
Originally posted by hamayoun

And the fact that Algebra is in favor of a total genocide shows just how biased and unjust he is.


Again I dont wish to digress religious jews believe that the land was theirs to begin with.

A religious jew believes that by reclaiming the land he is only performing a divinely ordained religious act.

I have a conservative friend who told me that jerusalem will have to be reclaimed by the rebuilding of the temple.

Now in line with this thread, are they performing acts of worship by reclaiming the land and rebuilding the temple?
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote eldon Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2008 at 9:25am

It is an act of worship, but the question is WHO are they worshipping?

Jesus once said, I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews and are not, but are the synogogue of Satan. (Revelation 2:9)
 
A prophecy in 2Thessalonians says that they will be worshipping a man of sin in the Temple of God who will claim that he is God. 
 
However that prophecy plays out, we know that those who worship that man, claiming the land and rebuilding the temple in order to do so, are NOT servants of the Most High. 
So lose not heart nor fall into despair, for ye MUST gain mastery if ye are true in faith.3:139

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote algebra Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2008 at 1:22pm
Sure eldon, I agree what is worship to one is sin to another.

So any act that perpetuates violence is not an act of worship, no matter how you twist it.

At best we can call an act of violence a "necessary evil".

Any person (including a prophet) that perpetuates violence is perpetuating evil.

I would argue that jihad (of the violent sort) for this reason cannot be logically called an act of worship, period.

I would also submit that this is the reason why no prophet can be deemed to be free from sin (an inherently impossible position for any human being to hold)
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote waheed1 Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2008 at 1:55pm
Any person (including a prophet) that perpetuates violence is perpetuating evil.


All the Prophets had some sort of Jihad they had to perform, whether it was spiritual and /or in the midst of something physical.

The Prophet Muhammad-peace be on him- was not the warmonger that the john Hagee and Pat Robertson types make him out to be. Remember, he spared his greatest enemies when he had the upper hand, after the bloodless re-entry into Makkah. I think we all should take the entire character or picture into consideration before making generalizations.

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote algebra Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2008 at 2:50pm
Waheed1 without intending to offend, I would find it very difficult to come to any other conclusion after having read the life story of the prophet.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote waheed1 Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2008 at 2:55pm
You have read one or two incidents, which were in the context of conflict and, in many cases, beyond the Prophet's control.

My point is that when the Prophet entered Makkah, it would have been understood by all had he taken revenge. But he did not!! If anything, he did the action of "forgive and love thy enemies" rather than proclaiming it verbally!

That is the best example because then he was the essentially undisputed leader of Arabia.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Guests Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2008 at 2:57pm
What books did you read Algebra?
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hamayoun  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote hamayoun Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2008 at 2:59pm
Probably Prophet of Doom.
May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

My blog: http://regularbaba.blogspot.com/
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote algebra Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2008 at 3:03pm
Quite the contrary, I have limited my reading to muslim writers that portray the prophet in a flattering light.

My objections have come from the ahadith that are associated with the stories that I read.

It would probably be too much to get into on this thread, and we would be off topic.

As you know my only grouse with islam has always been the actions of the prophet, not the philosophies and ideologies he espoused.


Edited by algebra - 08 April 2008 at 3:03pm
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jamilahz  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote jamilahz Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2008 at 3:31pm
Which books Algebra?  What are their names?  Who wrote them?
www.hudastore.com

www.theoneislam.com
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote waheed1 Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2008 at 3:33pm
Have you ever read Muhammad Haykal's The life of Muhammad? It's a very good book. A bit dense, it's for a serious student. I recommend that.

If that book is too thick, try Muhammad the Prophet by Muhammad Ali.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote algebra Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2008 at 3:59pm
The Sealed Nectar, I am not sure who the author is, but its a very flattering text.

Islamic Monotheism, Bilal Phillips

Perhaps the most controversial book I read that referred to the prophet was

Muhammad: A Biography of the Prophet by Karen Armstrong; It was this book that first planted the seeds of doubt in my mind about the 'prophethood' of Mohammed.

Even though Karen attempted to put a positive spin on the killing and looting by claiming it was the moral standard of the day, I could never go back to seeing the prophet in a positive light.

Originally I attempted to accept it by claiming that the moral standard of arabs back then did not apply today, but eventually I came to wonder how islam could be relevant today if,

1) the moral standards of the people at that time were so low

2) Islam could never be changed to reflect the higher moral standard we hold ourselves to today.


Edited by algebra - 08 April 2008 at 4:14pm
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jamilahz  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote jamilahz Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2008 at 4:17pm
I've read Karen Armstrong's book too... before I was Muslim... and I didn't get that at all...

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