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français  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote français Replybullet Topic: Islam and Israel
    Posted: 30 March 2008 at 6:38pm
Hello,

I was on a forum the other day, and was surprised at what I saw it say on Israel. The members were slamming down Israel, saying that no one was innocent there, and that it must be destroyed and that there is no room for peace.

I can understand why some people feel that, but at the same time it seems a bit harsh.

So, I was wondering.. what do the majority of Muslim scholars say on Israel? Do they think they have the right to exist and recognize that peace talks could happen, or?

Thanks  
*Kyle*
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waheed1  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote waheed1 Replybullet Posted: 30 March 2008 at 9:49pm
Hey Francais,

Hope all is well. Your friend Annette asked the same question before. Read the discussion at the link below.

http://islaminviewforum.com/index.php?showtopic=294&hl=israel
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Gargoyle  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Gargoyle Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2008 at 12:59am



Edited by Gargoyle - 27 May 2008 at 2:26pm
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Gargoyle  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Gargoyle Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2008 at 1:00am



Edited by Gargoyle - 27 May 2008 at 2:25pm
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Nura  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Nura Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2008 at 6:15pm
And, most of all, what does the world "innocent" mean?
I understand that a Palestinian who has had his dear people killed by the Israelis would hate them all. The same for a Israeli who had somebody killed from a palestinian. But people outside the conflict should try to analize the whole conflict from a historical and political point of view, not an emotional or religious one.
Spare me the political events and power struggles, as the whole earth is my homeland and all men are my fellow countrymen. K.Gibran
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Aviatrix  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Aviatrix Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2008 at 12:40am
I think we would be in a very sad state if we could not define the word "innocent." It should be obvious.
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scruggnut  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote scruggnut Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2008 at 1:28pm

The word "innocent" is hard to define; unless, that is, you subscribe to jesus' statement that, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"; which is to say that not one of us is innocent.

Tell me, amy....what is so obvious about innocence except for our lack thereof.
Waiting an eternity for an apology from one who never apologizes but always demands one.
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Gargoyle  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Gargoyle Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2008 at 8:06pm



Edited by Gargoyle - 27 May 2008 at 2:24pm
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ScoobyGurl  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ScoobyGurl Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2008 at 8:22pm
Innocent is hard to define. Civilians are innocent most of the time. But what about guerrilla fighters (Palestinian suicide bombers)? What about armed forces that abuse their power continuously (IDF)? Innocent, especially in the context of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, is very hard to define.
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IssaRaheem  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote IssaRaheem Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2008 at 8:41pm
Salaam,
 
Babies are the ones who are innocent 100% of the time.. I would like to say kids too, but ive seen kids on boths sides packing heat.. But that falls at the feet of ignorant parents who drag thier children into a war situation to fight.. To be honest, I can't wait untill the day I see Palestinian kids and Israeli kids playing in the streets together, Insha'Allah... This brings me so much more enjoyment to see rather than the spilling of blood...
 
Where has all of this war brought the Palestinians and Israelis? Not once have I ever been satisfied by this war.. Especially in our day and age of Bio-Chemical/Nuclear warfare where collective punishment (Collateral Damage) comes all too often by bombs that do not discriminate against age, color nor sex..
 
Who is innocent? Allah (SWT) knows all... (Only He Knows)


Edited by IssaRaheem - 01 April 2008 at 8:46pm
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M.A.R.W.A.N
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote M.A.R.W.A.N Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2008 at 9:23pm
Let's all be clear, in the real world, the "innocent" person is defined differently by every ideology & religion, and it becomes even more complicated when a person throws in his/her own relative morality into the mix (as in, many people make their own rules, change them, introduce exceptions and can generally be very liquid with their moral code). For certain, their are commonalities, however within the details there are countless differences, we end up with a non-universal application of the term, as I'm sure you have all witnessed for centuries.

In my (strong & fully convinced) opinion, Israel, obviously uses a double standard (hell, they're even occasionally willing to take out their own); and this is directly the result of adopting a bloody racist regime (zionism) as policy for occupation; on the other hand, Jews, Christians, Muslims and Others each have their own set of standards, and even then, not all of them conform to their respective religions.

The best of all these people are the ones who act sincerely. Part of sincerity is to follow the truth. Part of following the truth is to look for it (and more importantly, accept it if found).


"Islam teaches that all humans are innocent by birth and they become sinful only when they consciously commit a sin." ~Shahul Hameed.





Edited by M.A.R.W.A.N - 02 April 2008 at 10:05am
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