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hamayoun  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote hamayoun Replybullet Posted: 07 April 2008 at 11:48am
Salam

Since current events is now back, why don't we open a thread on the Iraq war there, take off the kid gloves, and discuss it with no holds barred?
May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

My blog: http://regularbaba.blogspot.com/
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M.A.R.W.A.N
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote M.A.R.W.A.N Replybullet Posted: 07 April 2008 at 12:34pm

Thanks Deepthought as well, I agree with almost everything you said.

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ScoobyGurl  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ScoobyGurl Replybullet Posted: 07 April 2008 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by M.A.R.W.A.N

To be fair, he specifically wrote American army, he did not write Americans.
 
Some time ago people would have blamed the Germans, other times Japanese...sometimes Crusaders and yet other times Communists....
 
Let's not be surprised now that we're in the mix, afterall, our Government has invaded 2 countries recently, supported countless human rights violations internationaly and I remember some time ago according to BBC, this had spilled over we were ranked as the Biggest Threat to Global Peace.
 
So yes, the general perception against us is very real. It's not fair that americans have to pay for the mistakes of their Government (or their military) - but in the irony of ironies, the bad publicity against Muslims is now happening to americans as well. Just like it happened to people before us.
 
 
Even by qualifying Americans with "army" I still take issue with the post. A lot of soldiers, in fact, I would venture to say most soldiers in the army are 1) working class or poor 2) looking to help not harm people 3) probably not extremely well informed about foriegn policy to begin with.
 
I'm just as critical of American foriegn policy as anyone. That being said, stereotypes don't help anyone and they don't help to foster dialogue. I don't care if it's against Muslims, Americans or anyone else. Saying that American soliders are so bad, evil, blah, blah, blah is no better than me demonizing Saddam's army as evil, the Japanese soldiers in WWII as evil, etc. I think American soldiers, like soldiers of other countries and times, are for the most part, caught up in circumstances that they ultimately have little control over.
 
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M.A.R.W.A.N
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote M.A.R.W.A.N Replybullet Posted: 07 April 2008 at 3:32pm

You're right in that stereotypes don't help, but it's important to understand the language of the speaker - when people claim the US Gov. commits crimes overseas, they hardly ever mean every member and public servant. This is not the same as  white supremacy advocates, anti-muslims, anti-semites, etc. for they hate specific people without discrimination, no pun intended.

It is the general trend of actions that our critics refer to, I'm referring to our civil critics, not the blindly hateful ones.
 
We can't all be like Mu'aawiyah raa and run what is considered to have been a most successful government - solving every internal problem before it increased.....no, we are dealing with an incompetent government that neither truly cares for their people nor their own soldiers....add to that the fact that most people outside the US aren't really that different from us (meaning they're too lazy to filter the truth, they much prefer oversimplifications like black & white storytelling) and you get the expected result, people lump us into one group - wether it's  "those americans..." ,or "those muslims...." or "those jews...."  and speak as if we're all at fault. This has been repeated too many times in history and it's never been right, but it's reality.
 
 
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M.A.R.W.A.N
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote M.A.R.W.A.N Replybullet Posted: 07 April 2008 at 3:33pm
You made some excellent points though....
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IssaRaheem  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote IssaRaheem Replybullet Posted: 07 April 2008 at 6:55pm
Salaam,
 
My best friend's wifes sister was raped in the Army last year...
 
American culture is soooooo sex driven in this day and age, it's a perfect reciepe for young immature men  with raging hormones to do the unthinkable... Now having said that, rape exsists in all parts of the world, it's just a fact that more American stories get covered...
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deep thought  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote deep thought Replybullet Posted: 07 April 2008 at 7:00pm

Issa... I agree... U would not believe the stories I have heard from Iraqi's who fought against the Iranians.

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ScoobyGurl  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ScoobyGurl Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2008 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by M.A.R.W.A.N

You're right in that stereotypes don't help, but it's important to understand the language of the speaker - when people claim the US Gov. commits crimes overseas, they hardly ever mean every member and public servant. This is not the same as  white supremacy advocates, anti-muslims, anti-semites, etc. for they hate specific people without discrimination, no pun intended.

It is the general trend of actions that our critics refer to, I'm referring to our civil critics, not the blindly hateful ones.
 
We can't all be like Mu'aawiyah raa and run what is considered to have been a most successful government - solving every internal problem before it increased.....no, we are dealing with an incompetent government that neither truly cares for their people nor their own soldiers....add to that the fact that most people outside the US aren't really that different from us (meaning they're too lazy to filter the truth, they much prefer oversimplifications like black & white storytelling) and you get the expected result, people lump us into one group - wether it's  "those americans..." ,or "those muslims...." or "those jews...."  and speak as if we're all at fault. This has been repeated too many times in history and it's never been right, but it's reality.
 
 
 
True. Still, it can be really frustrating sometime, especially when you don't support the policies of the US Government. For instance, when my umm went on hajj, a women from Eastern Europe said to her that she hates Americans. When my mother told her that Allah makes all Muslims including American Muslims, the lady backtracked and told my mom she meant Bush and not all Americans. The woman's anger against Bush was understandable but my mom voted against Bush twice. Sometimes, I just kinda wish people would think for a minute before saying "all _______ are _________". It's hard but not impossible.
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