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z ardy  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote z ardy Replybullet Topic: Wilders' film
    Posted: 03 April 2008 at 2:39pm
i guess almost everybody knew about Fitna, a film by a Dutch parliament member, Geert Wilders, which was released in the internet on 27th March 2008, but why don't i see any topic posted on this? or maybe there is, but i just missed it... perhaps?
 
let's all be matured and stop arguing for nothing
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hamayoun  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote hamayoun Replybullet Posted: 03 April 2008 at 2:47pm
Salam

Well, thats good to a certain extent. This racist thug with an IQ in double (maybe even single) figures wants attention from muslims, best thing maybe is to ignore him. 
May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

My blog: http://regularbaba.blogspot.com/
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bayleaf  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote bayleaf Replybullet Posted: 03 April 2008 at 3:19pm
Irshad Manji's sentiments pretty much reflect my own:
 
I have watched it. Others should too, not because it is compelling but because, in its utter predictability, the film reminds us why freedom of expression is worth defending. To remain powerful, freedom demands creativity -- the very creativity that Fitna lacks.
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hamayoun  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote hamayoun Replybullet Posted: 03 April 2008 at 3:22pm
Salam

In other words, Irsahd Manji is saying she can attack Islam more creatively than Wilders.
May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

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jamilahz  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote jamilahz Replybullet Posted: 03 April 2008 at 3:28pm
lol Hamayoun... so right.  Attacking Islam needs flair! People! work with me here!
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ScoobyGurl  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ScoobyGurl Replybullet Posted: 03 April 2008 at 3:49pm
Ok, I don't agree with Irshad Manji's methods 99% of the time but what she said actually makes sense and I don't think it's really objectionable. I haven't watched Fitna so I can't comment on it but other books and films like Infidel always make us probe our faith further or at least they should.
 
I've read the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins and I found it to be an utter piece of mess (for the most although he did have some good points). I'm actually glad I've read it. Yes, it's an attack on religion including Islam but it makes me strives so much harder to be "creative", to think better about Islam and my belief in God.
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hamayoun  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote hamayoun Replybullet Posted: 03 April 2008 at 3:55pm
Salam

Irsahd Manji can say whatever she wants, but she's in the same boat as Wilders... both want to make media potrayals of how bad Islam is, and both will ultimately benefit from it.  If you really want something to make you 'probe your faith further', without the accompanying hatred for Islam, I'd recommened Tariq Ramadan.
May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

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hamayoun  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote hamayoun Replybullet Posted: 03 April 2008 at 3:58pm
Salam

While we are talking about Manji... imagine a Catholic lesbian who wrote a anti-Catholic book called 'The Trouble with Catholicism', and was then hailed by non Catholics as the true voice of Catholics.  How would catholics feel about that?  Cos when any 'muslim' writes any anti muslim stuff, they are always getting hailed.  For example, that Bengladashi porn writer.  Hey, maybe we should decalre Hugh Heffner to be the new face of Christianity???
May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

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hamayoun  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote hamayoun Replybullet Posted: 03 April 2008 at 4:02pm
Salam

And while I'm at it... I grew up in the UK when there was still a lot of anti Pakistani racism.  This was mostly done by thugs with lower IQs (think skinheads in the 1970s).  As far as I'm concerned, Wilders is just a grown up evrsion of these kinds of thugs, and is using the word 'Muslim' now as opposed to 'Paki'.  Again, ignoring these thugs is my suggestion.
May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

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ScoobyGurl  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ScoobyGurl Replybullet Posted: 03 April 2008 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by hamayoun

Salam

Irsahd Manji can say whatever she wants, but she's in the same boat as Wilders... both want to make media potrayals of how bad Islam is, and both will ultimately benefit from it.  If you really want something to make you 'probe your faith further', without the accompanying hatred for Islam, I'd recommened Tariq Ramadan.
 
Wa Salaam,
 
You missed my point. I'm quite familar with Irshad Manji's works and I don't like it. However, what she said was actually a correct assessment in my view. Sometimes, you have to look at the message and not the messenger.
 
Also, does reading someone like Dawkins preclude me reading Ramadan? Why do frame things in black and white dichotomy? I've read Dawkins so I must not have Ramadan (which, btw, I have)? Actually, I find other Muslim writers to be more inspiring but that's another thread for another day.
 
You can bet your dollar that a lot of classic Muslim scholars were quite familar with the literature written about Islam from Christian apologists.
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ScoobyGurl  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ScoobyGurl Replybullet Posted: 03 April 2008 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by hamayoun

Salam

And while I'm at it... I grew up in the UK when there was still a lot of anti Pakistani racism.  This was mostly done by thugs with lower IQs (think skinheads in the 1970s).  As far as I'm concerned, Wilders is just a grown up evrsion of these kinds of thugs, and is using the word 'Muslim' now as opposed to 'Paki'.  Again, ignoring these thugs is my suggestion.
 
Wa salaam,
 
I disagree with ignoring them. One, I don't think that possible considering that it's pretty impossible for minorities in any society to ignore the majority, no matter how hard they try. Two, it's good to know how people think and why they think that way.
 
As a black person, I think it's actually detrimental not to see how racism work and why it's still prevelent in our society.
 
I don't think the issue is to ignore. I think we (Muslims) should respond but we have to respond smartly and with reflection.
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hamayoun  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote hamayoun Replybullet Posted: 03 April 2008 at 4:07pm
Salam

I agree that there is benefit in reading something like Dawkins, a muslim needs to understand how a mind like his works.  But it's clear that Manji is nothing more than an opportunist, who is basically saying "this movie is rubbish, but we have to allow stuff like this to be made and distributed, like I did with my far better book.  Now go out and get it if you haven't already sone so.  And let's keep making stuff like this, no matter how offensive it is".  Or am I being too simplistic?


May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

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hamayoun  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote hamayoun Replybullet Posted: 03 April 2008 at 4:10pm
Salam

Scooby, what Wilders wants more than anything else is a REACTION to his movie from the muslim world.  It's like a man who abuses his spouse verbally... he just does it to get a kick out of it, and gets his satisfaction from seeing her react.  That's why I personally don't want to give him the satisfaction of seeing me even flinch at his offence. 
May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

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hamayoun  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote hamayoun Replybullet Posted: 03 April 2008 at 4:11pm
Salam

Nice debate we have going on here...!
May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

My blog: http://regularbaba.blogspot.com/
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