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LtTony  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote LtTony Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2008 at 7:42pm
 
 
Me, too.  That's the ONLY reason I go there.  The doughnuts, that is.  The coffee I can get at home.
 
 
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
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LtTony  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote LtTony Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2008 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by Kadaveri

Did you watch the clips Tony?
 
 
Yes, I did.  Comments off the top of my head....
 
I thought they were fair, balanced, like you said.  I think it is how different people process the info is where the potential disagreements come in.
 
Not sure I get the connection -- if any -- between Frontiers Ireland and the Caleb Group.  Not sure I would characterize the Caleb Group as a bad outfit.  I might not agree with the specifics of it approach, but I'm uncertain what its approach is exactly.
Preaching to "vulnerable" groups??  So do muslims.  I've read where Islam's biggest inroads have been among minorities and minorities in prison.  Christians try to evangelize in prisons, too.
 
Some comments on the links were good.  "There is nothing wrong with doing a demographic study regarding the popularity of a product---even if that product is religion. While I may oppose the ideas of Christianity, this stuff is hardly nefarious. "

"fundamental christianity against fundamental islam, what a combination!"
 
"Muslims love to share their meesage with the disenfranchised, weak, needy and apathetic offerring them "something better" its recruit , recruit, recruit on all sides."
 
"Spread xianity to the emotionally weak? Sounds about right, and thats why you'll find religious programs in prisons, hospitals etc."
 
The report mentioned a poll showing "36% of British muslims support death to apostates," leading a muslim cleric to say, "We have a lot of work to do."
Also mentioned were Taliban executions of missionaries, and "reprisals are a reality....we don't want to cause problems for our muslim friends."
 
All of that doesn't justify any shady tactics, however.  The "mainline" christian reps interviewed categorically rejected the alleged tactics in question -- as do I -- and indicated they are on guard to prevent them.  At the same time, it sounded to me that "Caleb-like" tactics are rare; that there are bigger problems for muslims and christians.
 
 
 
 
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
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Misbah  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Misbah Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2008 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by LtTony

 
Who were these people that made this offer?  I'd like to hear the details on this reprehensible behavior.


Salaam,

Oh I'm sorry, i do apologise, I'll just call them to let them know  if I'm 'allowed' to give you this information.

You know what? i watched this Documentary myself. It was mostly Iranians and Afghans who were so called converted, I'm not saying all just hid and ran, there were quite a few Iranians still practising this conversion you know, mainly women, they really liked the freedom in Christianity, well that's what they said.

Now it was some time i think in December maybe when i watched this and I'm no good with names and organisations,

So do please forgive me.








Edited by Misbah - 08 April 2008 at 8:47pm
"Don’t be so humble - you ain't that great."
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boink  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote boink Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2008 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by Giovanni

   Sometimes I get free coffee and doughnuts after mass.
 
now try to research what they give away after mass in africa!!! in exchange for??
 
you can try to laugh it up but try asking your priest let him explain
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shobar  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote shobar Replybullet Posted: 09 April 2008 at 12:06am
Originally posted by scruggnut

How do you guys know that the story boink related is true?
All of your statements seem to suggest a belief in what he says; but by my reckoning, boink just made statements...that doesn't constitute any proof at all.
Are you guys just predisposed to believe anything that portrays christianity in a negative light, and conversely, just as ready to belief anything that cast a positive light on islam (i've been here long enough to understand that believers are already predisposed to ignore anything that casts a harsh or critical light on that which they believe).

The proof is around us and all over internet, you don't feel and care about it since you aren't citizen of poor country and not  their target of conversion.

Most Missionary organizations disguise their conversion efforts as charity organization. Often in the press, we hear about “faith-based initiatives” but that is just a euphemism for aggressive and violent conversion organizations. In the Western media, Missionaries are portrayed as true saviors who feed the hungry and nurse the sick.
However, Missionaries do not do this for the good of humanity, but instead to convert people to Christianity. Missionaries have also decided to target the poorest for conversions, not because they are the neediest, but rather, because they can be easily bribed into changing their faith, and they can not easily report to the press the atrocities which the Missionaries have inflicted upon them...detail

In Indonesia last week, reports that a missionary group named WorldHelp planned to raise 300 Muslim tsunami orphans in a Christian children's home in Jakarta brought an outcry from Muslims. The group later said it had never had custody of the children...detail

AKKARAIPETTAI, India -- The Christian evangelists came in the morning, wearing fluorescent yellow T-shirts emblazoned with "Believers Church" on the back and "Gospel for Asia" on the front. They loaded up hundreds of villagers, mostly Hindus, in vans and trucks and drove them 6 miles away.
There, away from the eyes of village officials, each tsunami survivor received relief supplies--a sleeping mat, a plate, a sari, a 55-pound bag of rice and, in the bottom of a white plastic bag proclaiming "Believers Church Tsunami Relief," a book containing biblical verses warning against the dangers of alcohol...detail
If My servant draws near to Me an arm's length, I draw near to him a fathom's length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed.
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Traveller  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Traveller Replybullet Posted: 09 April 2008 at 3:25am
But why? Why are they doing this sort of things? Are they only interested in numbers?
In life, be like a traveller. Take only what you need
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shobar  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote shobar Replybullet Posted: 09 April 2008 at 5:26am
Maybe their truly god is actually money and that's what they can offer best and I bet they give it not for free.
I don't think the late mother Theresa in agreement with their trick anyway.

"When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said "Let us pray." We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land." - Desmond Tutu
If My servant draws near to Me an arm's length, I draw near to him a fathom's length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed.
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Misbah  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Misbah Replybullet Posted: 09 April 2008 at 7:39am

Salaam

You know what? if you target the weak then you can accomplish anything, now I'm not saying some Muslims do this but in Islam spreading the word of Islam in a polite and comforting manner is a must.  In Islam no one forces anyone to become anything, nor does it offer any special gifts.

In Islam one is supposed to spread the message tell people but then leave it up to them to decide.

If a religion needs to target the weak with so called promises then its obvious that the religion has doubts in itself. Just my opinion.






Edited by Misbah - 09 April 2008 at 7:39am
"Don’t be so humble - you ain't that great."
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Giovanni  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Giovanni Replybullet Posted: 09 April 2008 at 7:50am
Originally posted by boink

Originally posted by Giovanni

   Sometimes I get free coffee and doughnuts after mass.
 
now try to research what they give away after mass in africa!!! in exchange for??
 
you can try to laugh it up but try asking your priest let him explain



  I am not trying to laugh it up, I am sure  some try to lure  some into their religion using tactics that most would make you wonder.  And it is not only Christian missionaries.  But how are you building bridges bringing up things as such, should I also start nit picking about things in Islam I don't find acceptable by most standards.  And for most here just going about such as , "oh yeah look at them Christians".   Thats nice.
 
 
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote struggle Replybullet Posted: 09 April 2008 at 8:32am
I think when it comes down to the point, the weak is always being target. Its not about religion. I like christianity but sometimes the world we live is the problem. Like where the hell the world is coming to. Here we worring about God and theres poor people out there, includin myself. 
EYE FOR EYE
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boink  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote boink Replybullet Posted: 09 April 2008 at 10:54am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owCXbDVTLRE
 
a very good example of things to come in many muslim land
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Nura  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Nura Replybullet Posted: 09 April 2008 at 11:09am
Salam, I am not very interested in the question if they did it or not; but I ask myself why?
 
I mean, a missionary usually wants other people to accept his religion because he is convinced that this will save their souls - or am I wrong?
 
Now, it's clear that somebody who becomes a christian (or a muslim) just for money is not really convinced, so is not likely to be "saved" (except if God wants so).
 
So why spending money to convert such people, who aren't real believers?
 
Except, of course, if political goals are pursued (for example, if all Americans convert to Islam, America will maybe become an ally of muslim countries, so it may be worth spending money for dawah )
 
Spare me the political events and power struggles, as the whole earth is my homeland and all men are my fellow countrymen. K.Gibran
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jana.z  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote jana.z Replybullet Posted: 09 April 2008 at 11:52am
when i was a christian, enticements came in all sorts of manners.  christians are encouraged to go out and "spread the word".  and it can be in a kind and gentle way or forceful (i think of the ppl that have knocked at my door and kept talking even after i say "not interested!".
 
 
food, gifts and offerings of assistance have been a long standing "dangling carrot" when trying to convince ppl that jesus is the truth and the way.  and this is not strictly for muslims only......christians do this to muslims, atheists, christians from other denominations (especially protestants wanting catholics to leave their  ideas behind).
 
 
and i was never told to talk to ppl about christianity because it would save MY soul, but to save THEIR souls.
 
we are told, as christians, that our job would be done when the good word had been spread to every corner of the earth.
 
im sure there are ppl who have political agendas too but they are not sincere and not godly ppl to begin with.
 
i am not a christian anymore, but im just letting you know how i was taught.  but even as a catholic we werent taught to go door to door and try to convince ppl. we invited ppl to mass.  but i had friends from other denominations that would have HUGE revivals inviting alllllll the city to come and rejoice!!  i went to one and nearly got choked on the amount of force that is used trying to convince you of their ways!
 
but you have to know, as in islam and any other religion, that there are extreme, hardcore christians too. sects that will frighten the pants off of you and make you afraid to open your door. 
 
but in any religion or not,  money can still be considered the source of evil. there are ppl that are not strong in mind or religion who will do anything for a buck.  and there are ppl so poor that they become desperate too.  i would imagine that if you had a child to feed and not a morsel in the house that 600 dollars was probably looking like millions.  im not saying this is right or acceptable  but who knows the circumstances.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote jamilahz Replybullet Posted: 09 April 2008 at 12:08pm
In Islam we are told to trust in Allah for everything.  If we are in a desperate situation and something like this is presented it is a test of our faith to turn it away.  We are not to take non believers at protectors...
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