Hall of FameHall of Fame  Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp  chatChat
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
InterReligious Dialogue
 Whyislam.org Forums : General : InterReligious Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Conversion from Christianity to Islam: wh(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 9 Next >>
Author Message
hamayoun  
Super Mureed
Super Mureed
Avatar
The Humble Muslim
Religion: Islam(Sunni)
Posts: 7721
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 14 April 2008 at 10:36pm
Salam

Like Jamilahz says, these are the views of 'been there, seen that' ex Christians, some of whom were VERY practicing.  I am NOT giving my own views here, simply pasting what ex-Christians say.

Here is a good link to what Ramadan is really about. 
May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

My blog: http://regularbaba.blogspot.com/
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
hamayoun  
Super Mureed
Super Mureed
Avatar
The Humble Muslim
Religion: Islam(Sunni)
Posts: 7721
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 14 April 2008 at 10:51pm
Please see my replies below.

Originally posted by bayleaf

Thank you, Hamayoun, for posting material from your Even Angels Ask forum - a site dedicated, for the uninitiated who may not know of what I refer, where reverts can come and feel a sense of belonging.  It's sort of like Cheers, except without tasty cold ones or Woody Harrellson.

H: The forum that bayleaf is talking about is a forum for reverts only, whose function is to give reverts the kind of support they can sometimes only get from other reverts.
 
Now, it's obvious, Hamayoun, that you've forgotten you're own conversion when you were the young, autoerotic adolescent that you were, crushing on your dear beloved cousin. 

H: Very classy.  You now decide to openly publicize information I told you in confidence.  Whatever religion you follow, that kind of behaviour really says a whole lot about you personally.

But take a closer look at the replies which your cronies have posted.  Take a look even at jamilah's latest response!  The very first quote which you copy and paste mentions twice the greater level of spirituality experienced within Islam as opposed to Christianity.  The second and third quotes state that Islam cleared up "the confusion" or offered "clarity" (which hardly hints at the 'reason' or 'logic' which you arbitrarily categorize these statements as).  And I'm absolutely befuddled how you could categorize the next statement as suggesting this individual converted due to reason and logic.

H: I disagree.  That's why I opened this thread.  Of course we could try discussing it in a polite manner rather than the aggresive approach you seem to be taking here.  But my point is that the 'clarity' only comes through reason and logic.
 
Is it so unspeakable if a person chooses to convert based on faith, rooted in heartfelt spirituality and emotion, rather than the intellectual facticity which you seem to be so gung-ho about?  Do you even know what the word "convert" means?  Or are you still so busy chomping at the bit creating WhyIslam's own Hezbollah that you've forgotten the basics of true conversion?

H: Of course it's possible, but ultimately they VERY first thing muslims are supposed to call non muslims is the fact of one God.  Without that being in place, spirutality and emotion are of no point whatsoever.  I have come across people who het excited abotu Islam after reading stuff from slightly weird sufis (not all sufis are like that), but that is NOT how to come to islam or hwo to call to Islam.  As for your very lame Hezbollah attack, the new Dawah Forum was created (a) to prevent disruptive muslims from damaging polite discussions on Islam, and (b) to prevent these kind of derogratory, personal attacking posts.
 
I remember during the days when I was Muslim that you used to proclaim to the Christians on this forum, "bayleaf [is home] is a Religious Studies major, and he knows a thing or to about religion."  Funny, now that I'm on the other side you've seemed to have forgotten your own advice.

H: Okay, you do know a thing or two about religion.  But that does not mean that I  am not allowed to disagree with you.



May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

My blog: http://regularbaba.blogspot.com/
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
algebra
Graduate
Graduate
Avatar
Religion: Other(Other)
Posts: 2131
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 15 April 2008 at 12:27am
This is kind of tedious.

hamayoun in all fairness you must also post the comments of ex-reverts like bay and myself.

I claim that my attempt to reconcile islam with my own conscience failed miserably, not least because islam to me while being a wonderful faith, came with as many problems as benefits.

With as many inconsistinencies as any other faith.

The bottom line is that as time progresses you will find thousands of ex-reverts, some like bay will be at peace with islam, others like me will be more beligerent.

The bottom line is that islam sticks for some folk, and for some folk it dont work.

For me the problem with islam was a moral code that I found primitive.
Why would I trade a far more refined moral code for one from the 7th century CE.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
devd  
Sophmore Member
Sophmore Member
Avatar
Location: United States
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 257
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 15 April 2008 at 12:46am
Originally posted by algebra


Why would I trade a far more refined moral code for one from the 7th century CE.


I don't know, you tell us:

To learn humility?

To learn the truth?

To get into the pants of some hot babe?
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
algebra
Graduate
Graduate
Avatar
Religion: Other(Other)
Posts: 2131
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 15 April 2008 at 8:22am
Originally posted by jamilahz

Try to not eat or drink anything for 15 hours everyday for 30 days... its not easy...

We fast during Ramadan because it was commanded by Allah to do so.


To deny your desires at any time is difficult.

However this entire thread is a silly my car is bigger and shinier than your car thing.

when will we realise that its not the car, but the driver that matters?

islam was not the car that fit my style, I found islam morally inconsistent and illogical.

another revert finds it logical and wonderful- everybody is different.

i took the trouble to examine islam thoroughly, in the end I found it didnt work for me.

In all honesty, I find christianity is way more morally consistent than islam.

However the theology of christianity is a stretch for me.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
scruggnut  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Location: Canada
Religion: Unknown(Unknown)
Posts: 3914
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 15 April 2008 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by jamilahz

Originally posted by algebra

Originally posted by hamayoun

The point of the thread is to show, contrary to bayleaf's claim, that when people leave Christianity for Islam, the #1 reason is because the concept of God in Islam is much more logical and far less confusing than that in Christianity.


I think muslims like to believe this.

However the "concept" of G_D is in and of itself an illogical concept.

It is based on a belief - a belief and a desire to have control over the world we live in.

We believe in G_D because we cannot explain our world completely.

As our understanding of the world increases, we will have more control over it, as our control over our environment increases we will have less need for our belief in G_D.

As I explained to you, wealthy educated muslims from your own homeland were, for the most part, only nominally muslim.
I posit the reason for this is because they were in more control of their environment than their compatriots.



are you ever a happy guy?  And honestly I'm sad for you that you can't find the truth in anything.
Just because one doesn't necessarily believe in god doesn't mean that one is unhappy or that one cannot find the truth in things.  You are so wrong to think this.
Because you need to believe in a god to be happy, is in no way indicative that everyone needs to believe in god to be happy.
Waiting an eternity for an apology from one who never apologizes but always demands one.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
ScoobyGurl  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
The Modern Muslimah
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 3953
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 15 April 2008 at 1:02pm
The one question I have is why is converting for spiritual and/or emotional reasons a bad thing? Religion is ultimately based on spirituality and our emotional relationship to God, the universe, or whatever else we believe in.
 
I can't deny that I find it much easier to grasp the Islamic concept of God over the Christian concept. That being said, a lot of things I do are spiritual in nature. Believing in a God who isn't remote but who is involved in everyday affairs is spiritual and emotional, no?
 
Maybe conversion is a combination of logic and spiritual and emotional factors.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
hamayoun  
Super Mureed
Super Mureed
Avatar
The Humble Muslim
Religion: Islam(Sunni)
Posts: 7721
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 15 April 2008 at 1:17pm
Salam

Yes Scooby, of course it's a combination.  The point I am making is that when it comes to Christianity to Islam (can't talk of other conversions), reason and logic plays a very large part, more than the small part which bayleaf is talking about.  Let's remember that the Quran calls to both polythiests and to Christians and Jews thru reason and logic.
May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

My blog: http://regularbaba.blogspot.com/
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
ScoobyGurl  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
The Modern Muslimah
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 3953
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 15 April 2008 at 1:31pm
No, I'm not denying reason and logic. They do play a large part. I just wasn't sure what you were saying about spirituality.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
jamilahz  
Graduate
Graduate
Avatar
in exile
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 2176
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 15 April 2008 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by scruggnut

Originally posted by jamilahz

Originally posted by algebra

Originally posted by hamayoun

The point of the thread is to show, contrary to bayleaf's claim, that when people leave Christianity for Islam, the #1 reason is because the concept of God in Islam is much more logical and far less confusing than that in Christianity.

I think muslims like to believe this.

However the "concept" of G_D is in and of itself an illogical concept.

It is based on a belief - a belief and a desire to have control over the world we live in.

We believe in G_D because we cannot explain our world completely.

As our understanding of the world increases, we will have more control over it, as our control over our environment increases we will have less need for our belief in G_D.

As I explained to you, wealthy educated muslims from your own homeland were, for the most part, only nominally muslim.
I posit the reason for this is because they were in more control of their environment than their compatriots.



are you ever a happy guy?  And honestly I'm sad for you that you can't find the truth in anything.
Just because one doesn't necessarily believe in god doesn't mean that one is unhappy or that one cannot find the truth in things.  You are so wrong to think this.
Because you need to believe in a god to be happy, is in no way indicative that everyone needs to believe in god to be happy.


Well scrugg, I honestly do feel sad that Algebra feels he has to rip everything apart... maybe that does make him happy.  I never said he had to believe in God to be happy, I just sense an overwhelming amount of sadness in him right now.
www.hudastore.com

www.theoneislam.com
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
bayleaf  
Graduate
Graduate
Avatar
Religion: Buddhism(Buddhism)
Posts: 2312
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 15 April 2008 at 1:53pm

The only logic involved in converting from Christianity to Islam is the disassociation of God from an otherwise triune nature, which, in the minds of those who ultimately convert, has been a gradual process nonetheless.  It's not to say some people don't have epiphanies, but what are those epiphanies rooted in?  I don't convert to Islam because the theological and philosophical presumption of tawhid is logically sound.  I convert because the concept of tawhid makes me feel something

The triune nature of God does not have to make a lick of sense if I willingly choose to believe.  I do not have to be able to explain what a hypostasis is in order to enjoy the merits of following Christ and living a Christian life.  And I most certainly do not need to ponder for long the tawhid of Allah if I'm already spiritually and emotionally perplexed, fatigued, and dead to what I'm hearing from the pulpit.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
jamilahz  
Graduate
Graduate
Avatar
in exile
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 2176
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 15 April 2008 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by algebra

Originally posted by jamilahz

Try to not eat or drink anything for 15 hours everyday for 30 days... its not easy...

We fast during Ramadan because it was commanded by Allah to do so.


To deny your desires at any time is difficult.

However this entire thread is a silly my car is bigger and shinier than your car thing.

when will we realise that its not the car, but the driver that matters?

islam was not the car that fit my style, I found islam morally inconsistent and illogical.

another revert finds it logical and wonderful- everybody is different.

i took the trouble to examine islam thoroughly, in the end I found it didnt work for me.

In all honesty, I find christianity is way more morally consistent than islam.

However the theology of christianity is a stretch for me.


Dearst Algebra - the thread was not meant to be like that.  It did get taken off track, I admit I was upset a bit that our fasting legitimacy was questioned, but I was wrong to do that. 

I think that you have said in this forum about a zillion times that Islam was not for you.  I think we get it now. 
www.hudastore.com

www.theoneislam.com
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
scruggnut  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Location: Canada
Religion: Unknown(Unknown)
Posts: 3914
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 15 April 2008 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by algebra

Originally posted by jamilahz

Try to not eat or drink anything for 15 hours everyday for 30 days... its not easy...

We fast during Ramadan because it was commanded by Allah to do so.


To deny your desires at any time is difficult.

However this entire thread is a silly my car is bigger and shinier than your car thing.

when will we realise that its not the car, but the driver that matters?

islam was not the car that fit my style, I found islam morally inconsistent and illogical.

another revert finds it logical and wonderful- everybody is different.

i took the trouble to examine islam thoroughly, in the end I found it didnt work for me.

In all honesty, I find christianity is way more morally consistent than islam.

However the theology of christianity is a stretch for me.
I have to disagree.  Morally, islam is less convoluted than christianity...and therefore, more consistant and logical.  But you are right, to each their own.
Waiting an eternity for an apology from one who never apologizes but always demands one.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
algebra
Graduate
Graduate
Avatar
Religion: Other(Other)
Posts: 2131
Forum Rating: 0
bullet Posted: 15 April 2008 at 2:32pm
Then scruggy we are dearly in need of your insight on the worshipping Allah thread, where we are debating the moral consequences of the verse 4:23, part of which states that men are legally entitled to have sex with their female captives.

To me, this is a perfect example of the convoluted nature of islam.

lets not forget - lying to murder an opponent of islam being accepted by Allah, who also states that killing one person is like killing all of humanity.

Not to mention Allah that asks men to deny themselves wine in this world, only to present them with rivers of wine in the next.

Reading all of these contradictory teachings would leave me positively schizophrenic.

Compare all these dubious teachings with the teachings of jesus in the sermon on the mount.

Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven
Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted
Blessed are the meek,
for that shall possess the earth
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for justice
for they shal be satisfied
Blessed are the merciful
for they shall obtain mercy
Blessed are the clean of heart,
for they shall see God
Blessed are the peacemakers
for they shall be called children of God
Blessed are they who suffer persecution for justice sake,
for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven
Blessed are you when men reproach you, and
persecute you, and
speaking falsely, say all manner of evil against you,
for my sake.



I cant begin to understand how you have concluded the morality of christianity is convoluted.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 9 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums version 8.03
Copyright ©2001-2006 Web Wiz Guide
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed by members of the Whyislam Forum do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of the Whyislam Team, or any of its subsidiaries, or parent organizations.