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InterReligious Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: Yishmael & Janet Waters Discuss Their Dif(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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yishmael  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 2:14am
Hi Shana,

Right. Your profile alleges you're 21. About the same age as I was when the Toscanos were slandered, libeled and dragged through endless filth in Salt Lake City by true believers who didn't like their interpretation of theology. They were painted as possibly being part of polygamy or an illicit sex ring. Was this true? No, it was not true. It was utter filth, spread about two wonderful people, by true believing Mormons. In essence, it was exactly what any cult would do to people who disagreed on a minor issue, and it is exactly what you and your mother have attempted to do here.

Mr. Benson is still being slandered by Mormon fanatics. I write articles for wikipedia on occasion, and the administrators have had to lock his entry because of the insane and untrue filth that Mormon apologists have attempted to falsely ascribe to him. He is also a wonderful man, and I wish I knew him further than a couple of brief but warm conversations. The digital danites have soured him on Mormonism forever. He's one of the best artists alive in America today, and he'll never come back due to all the personal abuse that he, his wife, and his children have suffered.

I go to a reform temple with my mother in law. Half the Jews in the congregation will openly talk about not believing in God. Do any of the other believers slander them, or spread lies about them? Do the skeptics get told that they are "anti-Jewish" because they are openly skeptical? No, they do not do this. Judaism is a religion, not a cult. People are judged upon their deeds, not upon differences of opinion.

Here's the news. Mormonism is a religion too. You don't see it, because you're voluntarily living in the cult that Mormonism used to be. I don't blame you for this. You're only 21 and it seems like you might have enjoyed a rather (and I'm putting this nicely) interesting environment in your formative years. Ask yourself why people like me manage to keep our recommends? The church has changed in the last 10 years. We are encouraged to stay. I have been begged to stay, personally, and I'm hardly the only one.

There are many of us in your ward right now, whether it's a singles ward or a family ward. We don't interfere with people like you. We love people like you, even if we don't agree, and despite the un-Christlike behavior you so often display.

Those of us who have decided to stay in love the church, despite some of the members. We live the teachings of the church, loving our brothers and sisters, rather than spewing insane accusations at those we disagree with.

I am a Mormon and will remain one until the end of my life. We all will. It's a unique sociocultural group built around the westward migration. It's an ethnic group of its own. Nobody can take Mormonism away from me.

Have a good night,

Yishmael

Originally posted by sbananamarie11

Obviously I am not a teenager... and I have been on and off this site for 4 years now, held my tongue, for the purpose of familiarizing myself with the beliefs of others so that I can become a more informed person. Not until I have seen your recent posts did I become irritated enough to say anything. I'm irritated b/c you are the type of people that give the church a bad name. You go around confessing that you are a mormon but don't believe in what the mormons believe to be true. Where I grew up there weren't a lot of members and lines were clearly defined.... you were either for or against... plain and simple. Not until I was in college did I come to the realization that in other parts of the country it was not the same. People felt like they had to all be "Molly Mormons" and "appear" to be like everybody else... they didn't know how to think for themselves and to be who they really were. Gray areas were added into the mix. I know who I am and I'm not ashamed to have to pretend like you and so many others are. Stop hiding behind your excuses and be a man. If you don't believe then that's your problem... and then that would mean you aren't a "mormon". There are many people who have high standards and a moral conscience that doesn't mean they are mormon by association. The very same could be said about you. Just b/c you claim to be mormon doesn't mean you are a believer... it's just a title to hide behind b/c you don't have the guts to stand up and say you are what you are.

Race and a religious belief are two different inheritances. You can choose to be a mormon or a catholic or a baptist... but you can't suddenly choose to be white or black or hispanic. It doesn't work that way.

And how do you see that you are helping the image of the church since you say that I am hurting it?  Do you feel that b/c you are being refreshingly honest on here instead of in your life you are helping anyone?

It doesn't seem "rational" to be something your not.

The whole idea of a "secular" mormonism  just doesn't make any sense... what's the point?
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sbananamarie11  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 2:35am
How do you know they were excommunicated for minor issues? In the articles I have read they never specify why they were excommunicated and it's only for the ppl exed and the bishop and the lord to know that information.

ok whatever so now your a cultural/secular mormon/reformed jew/atheist... so you don't really even know what you are... yea I might be 21 but I have a clear and perfect idea who and what I am and what I believe. I'm not ashamed and I am wide open with all who know me as to what I believe. I'm done trying to understand the confusion that is that you. I've said my peace.


Shanna
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yishmael  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 2:42am
Originally posted by sbananamarie11


ok whatever so now your a cultural/secular mormon/reformed jew/atheist... so you don't really even know what you are...


We're both here on a Muslim site. Does that mean you're confused and that you're actually a Muslim? It doesn't, does it?

If you get married into a non LDS family you will surely have occasion to attend religious services which are not your own. I enjoy my in-laws and I enjoy their temple. They let women preside and lead prayers, sorta like the Muslims.

http://www.islamfortoday.com/chaplain.htm

They also trust the congregants to live honorable lives without insisting upon agreement with the minutiae of what God looks like, and why we never saw Kolob through the Hubble telescope. (Little joke for you, that nobody but us three will understand).

Someday our tradition will see female leaders, and people will be free to argue about different interpretations of God without anyone fearing slander or harassment. When the day comes (soon!) that you or one of your female friends is set apart to be a bishop, I want you to remember our conversation.
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sbananamarie11  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 2:53am
When pigs fly... you think you flatter me with all this feminist crap. But I think feminists are stupid, bitter, whinny women who feel they are "victims" of the male gender... which is crap. Nice try.
Shanna
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yishmael  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 10:48am
Originally posted by Janet Waters

Originally posted by yishmael

Hi Janet,

Originally posted by Janet Waters



I did not say or imply that you were involved with narcotics and pronography.


Here's what you wrote:

You are really grasping here.....

I have a copy of the Qur'an too... so what?  I don't have a problem with people being well informed with the finer things of life.  It sounds like you've been consuming anti- crap.  That stuff can really mess with a person's perception of reality....just like drug abuse or pornography.


Remember: I never framed you for a liar.

Have a good night,

Yishmael


You love to throw in those fighting words....then frame them softly as though you are the victim.....and you need sympathy. 
You are one or the other....but not both at the same time.  Which thing I know is very confusing to you.

Before you re-read my quote again.....take off the victim glasses so you can see what is really there.



Please. My entire household was laughing at your psychotic behavior until 11 PM. I rather enjoyed it.

I live in "the mission field". My ward and stake leadership know me. My kids can't be hassled by gangs of Mormon kooks, and nobody would believe any of the nonsense you have so far vomited up in my direction.

I hope the administrators lock this thread (given your habit of editing your outbursts, long after posting, to make yourself look a little less bizarre) and archive it someplace, for the edification of any Muslim who imagines s/he might wander off and convert to Mormonism.

It'd probably also be relevant to the parallel thread on the scientology protests and the FLDS raid, as you're giving all the spectators a great example the danger of joining insular sects in general.

Best,

Yishmael
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sbananamarie11  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 11:56am
you are deceived
Shanna
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sbananamarie11  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 11:57am
.
Shanna
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Janet Waters  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 12:03pm

This is yet another personality?  How many of them do you have anyway?  The content of all my posts stayed the same.  The only reason I edit is for spelling and/or for adding additional information--not the subtraction of it.  So if you have interpreted anything as " bizarre" it should have been consistently bizarre.   

But then again....you are not consistent, you don't have the ability to consistently interpret yourself, anything that you say, or anything that you interpret.  So the above comment is true to form.

I'm glad that you get a laugh from your fits of strangeness....because I feel sorry for you and anyone that has been inflicted in dealing with the guy in the "mission field."  Especially one who doesn't know which "field" he is in.

I figured that I had been punked.  The thing is the joke is on you.
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yishmael  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by Janet Waters


This is yet another personality?  How many of them do you have anyway?  The content of all my posts stayed the same.  The only reason I edit is for spelling and/or for adding additional information--not the subtraction of it.  So if you have interpreted anything as " bizarre" it should have been consistently bizarre.     


That's interesting that you bring up "alternate personalities".

Tell the truth Janet, it's more than just a coincidence that you and "Shana" always seem to post at the same time...right?
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Janet Waters  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by yishmael

Originally posted by Janet Waters


This is yet another personality?  How many of them do you have anyway?  The content of all my posts stayed the same.  The only reason I edit is for spelling and/or for adding additional information--not the subtraction of it.  So if you have interpreted anything as " bizarre" it should have been consistently bizarre.     


That's interesting that you bring up "alternate personalities".

Tell the truth Janet, it's more than just a coincidence that you and "Shana" always seem to post at the same time...right?



People don't see the world as it is........
they see the world as THEY are. 

Just because you are a multiple....
doesn't mean that everyone else is.




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jamilahz  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 12:17pm
I have to admit its pretty confusing.  I'm getting all of the email notifications on this... and first something is posted by shana then by shana without the quote then the same thing again by janet... What are you all doing? 

Plus, I think we all get the picture.  Janet and shana don't like Yishmael.  So tone it down. 
www.hudastore.com

www.theoneislam.com
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Janet Waters  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 12:18pm
You think that you give Ashton Kutcher a run for the money?  Think again!  Don't quit your day job.
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yishmael  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 12:18pm
Originally posted by Janet Waters

Originally posted by yishmael

Originally posted by Janet Waters


This is yet another personality?  How many of them do you have anyway?  The content of all my posts stayed the same.  The only reason I edit is for spelling and/or for adding additional information--not the subtraction of it.  So if you have interpreted anything as " bizarre" it should have been consistently bizarre.     


That's interesting that you bring up "alternate personalities".

Tell the truth Janet, it's more than just a coincidence that you and "Shana" always seem to post at the same time...right?



People don't see the world as it is........
they see the world as THEY are. 

Just because you are a multiple....
doesn't mean that everyone else is.






Actually someone else mentioned the possibility yesterday. Apparently "shana" has made miraculous appearances in the past, to back up your arguments here on this forum, when you have been embarrassed by your own behavior. True or not? I can't say. You're the one continuing to harp on "multiple personalities", and you're the only one that seems to have one here. Interesting stuff, that. 

What do you suppose is the underlying motivation for this strange behavior of yours?
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Janet Waters  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by jamilahz

I have to admit its pretty confusing.  I'm getting all of the email notifications on this... and first something is posted by shana then by shana without the quote then the same thing again by janet... What are you all doing? 

Plus, I think we all get the picture.  Janet and shana don't like Yishmael.  So tone it down. 


Shanna is my 21 year old daughter...she has a mind of her own.  We are not "multiples" like Yishmael.

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