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InterReligious Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: Yishmael & Janet Waters Discuss Their Dif(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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jamilahz  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 12:21pm
I'm not saying you are multiples... but whats up with the yo yo posts? 

And really, you are getting so childish... take a step back from the computer and get on with your life.
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yishmael  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by jamilahz

I have to admit its pretty confusing.  I'm getting all of the email notifications on this... and first something is posted by shana then by shana without the quote then the same thing again by janet... What are you all doing? 

Plus, I think we all get the picture.  Janet and shana don't like Yishmael.  So tone it down. 


Sorry boss, for my part in this.

I started a new thread when Janet/Shana began alluding to "drugs and pornography", simply because I've dealt with characters like this one before and didn't want her to derail any of the serious discussions here. That aside, I'll call it quits, as I think the argument is simply repetition at this point.
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yishmael  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by Janet Waters

Originally posted by jamilahz

I have to admit its pretty confusing.  I'm getting all of the email notifications on this... and first something is posted by shana then by shana without the quote then the same thing again by janet... What are you all doing? 

Plus, I think we all get the picture.  Janet and shana don't like Yishmael.  So tone it down. 


Shanna is my 21 year old daughter...she has a mind of her own.  We are not "multiples" like Yishmael.



LOL! We all believe you.

Have a nice day.
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jamilahz  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by yishmael

Originally posted by jamilahz

I have to admit its pretty confusing.  I'm getting all of the email notifications on this... and first something is posted by shana then by shana without the quote then the same thing again by janet... What are you all doing? 

Plus, I think we all get the picture.  Janet and shana don't like Yishmael.  So tone it down. 


Sorry boss, for my part in this.

I started a new thread when Janet/Shana began alluding to "drugs and pornography", simply because I've dealt with characters like this one before and didn't want her to derail any of the serious discussions here. That aside, I'll call it quits, as I think the argument is simply repetition at this point.


Its not directed at you at all... you are keeping it at a mature level so far :)
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Janet Waters  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by yishmael

Actually someone else mentioned the possibility yesterday. Apparently "shana" has made miraculous appearances in the past, to back up your arguments here on this forum, when you have been embarrassed by your own behavior. True or not? I can't say. You're the one continuing to harp on "multiple personalities", and you're the only one that seems to have one here. Interesting stuff, that. 

What do you suppose is the underlying motivation for this strange behavior of yours?


Hearing voices again?  Actually, Shanna doesn't have enough patience to debate people.  So even if I wanted that....she wouldn't be up for it.

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Janet Waters  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by jamilahz

I have to admit its pretty confusing.  I'm getting all of the email notifications on this... and first something is posted by shana then by shana without the quote then the same thing again by janet... What are you all doing?


Originally posted by yishmael

Plus, I think we all get the picture.  Janet and shana don't like Yishmael.  So tone it down.


Originally posted by yishmael

Sorry boss, for my part in this.

I started a new thread when Janet/Shana began alluding to "drugs and pornography", simply because I've dealt with characters like this one before and didn't want her to derail any of the serious discussions here. That aside, I'll call it quits, as I think the argument is simply repetition at this point.


Like I said, go back and read that post again.....you are paranoid.  Is your ego that fragile?----enough to think that people really care about you delusions of insult?  Nobody would even remember it.........so why should you?


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Janet Waters  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by jamilahz

I'm not saying you are multiples... but whats up with the yo yo posts? 

And really, you are getting so childish... take a step back from the computer and get on with your life.


That post was not meant for you....it was directed at me....because of my comment to him.


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Janet Waters  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 1:03pm
Blessed silence!!!

How blessed it is!!

Thank you



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One-of-many
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 2:39pm
Has a sort of car wreck facination this thread.
Pistols at dawn?
Bricks through windows?
I can taste the anger.
 
Hope you can shake hands and agree to disagree!
 
 
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Janet Waters  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by One-of-many

Has a sort of car wreck facination this thread.
Pistols at dawn?
Bricks through windows?
I can taste the anger.
Hope you can shake hands and agree to disagree!


Not likely



Originally posted by yishmael

Hi Janet,  I'm from an old pioneer family and I respect that..... I am skeptical of a historical Jesus and I don't believe in God, except in the way ibn-Sina might have, as something so abstract, powerful and pervasive that no human can possibly wrap his mind around the concept.


Originally posted by yishmael

Well, supposedly we all fought a war in the pre-existence, came to earth to get bodies through a veil, which prevents us remembering such stuff, and here we are. God knew I was skeptical before I came here. Why did he allow me to pass through the veil? Either he didn't know that I would use my own brain to examine the universe, and find his presence lacking, in which case he's not much of a God...or he allowed it anyway simply for the sake of punishing me on judgment day. In that case he's nobody I'd want to know anyway, and I'd reject him on principle.


Originally posted by yishmael

God created me as a skeptic, and He's allowed me to use the free agency and the critical thinking skills with which He endowed me to become pretty confident that He doesn't exist...at least not in the way that the Mormons tell me he does.


Originally posted by yishmael

I thought I'd create a sandbox for further sound 'n' fury.



Originally posted by yishmael

Being a Mormon is similar to being a Jew. You never really get away from it, even if you want to. If I do leave Mormonism, I'm pretty sure I'll go to my in-law's (reform) temple, or maybe I'll chill with the Episcopalians, as neither of these traditions hold that belief in a literal God is necessary to spiritual growth.



Originally posted by Janet Waters


I'm saying that you are either a believer or not. 
You profess to be an atheist........
therefore you are not a believer.


Originally posted by yishmael

Janet doesn't like the Atheist designation I adopted. Whoever is in charge of this joint oughta put Mormon into its own category. Mormonism doesn't fit into the definition of Christian anyway.

So rather than Christian (Mormon) you could have Mormon (LDS) / Mormon (FLDS) / Mormon (RLDS) / Mormon (Strangite) / Mormon (Secular)

I would, of course, fit into the last category more closely than the first, which is where I'd imagine Sister Waters would go, even though we technically are both Brighamites.


Well we are definately Christians....for we believe in Christ and teach his doctrine in plainness....  If you have a problem with Christ....
then this is not the belief system for you.


Here is a description of one who preaches against Christ and his doctrine.....

Book of Mormon | Alma 30:6 - 8
But it came to pass in the latter end of the seventeenth year, there came a man into the land of Zarahemla, and he was Anti–Christ, for he began to preach unto the people against the prophecies which had been spoken by the prophets, concerning the coming of Christ.
7  Now there was no law against a man's belief; for it was strictly contrary to the commands of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to unequal grounds.
For thus saith the scripture: Choose ye this day, whom ye will serve.

Originally posted by Janet Waters

Brigham Young would be appalled with that claim.

This is insane!  There is only one Church by the name: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (or otherwise known as The Mormon Church).

All other organizations who claim that they are.........are deceivers and are in reality anti-mormon....whether or not they smart enough to figure that out! 

People who are ex-communicated from the Church.........are no longer associated with us and are not members of the same faith.  They can get their own identity through another organization who call themselves another name.  AND NOT MADE-UP COMBINATIONS OF OUR NAME--- WHICH ARE BEING USED TO DECEIVE THEMSELVES AND/OR OTHERS INTO BELIEVING THEY ARE MEMBERS OF OUR CHURCH.

If you want to follow your own doctrines........do it with another name.


You either believe in God or not. 
Mormons believe in God....
there is no such thing as an atheist Mormon.


Those who don't live the doctrine, can't live the doctrine, or those who don't believe the doctrine are known as Jack-Mormons.  These people are inactive members, who have yet to be excommunicated or ask for their names to be taken off the Church roles because they don't want to be contacted by Church Leaders.  There is no such thing as an atheist Mormon.....the term is either Jack-Mormon, Apostate, or an Excommunicated former member.



Originally posted by yishmael

D. Michael Quinn is a "Mormon" because he was born into a Mormon family and he still calls himself one. He's smarter than both of us and I trust him to know enough about himself to describe himself accurately. Whether or not his name is on the membership roster in SLC is of no consequence whatever. The fact that Janet Waters doesn't recognize him as a "Mormon" means absolutely nothing to everyone, with the possible exception of "Janet Waters".


All Mormon's are not descendants of Brigham Young.  Just because an adult was born to parents (who believed in Mormon doctrine and made covenants to God)....doesn't make that person a true believer by default.  We are not saved by the faithfulness of our parents.  We are responsible for our own choices.

You have to have that belief system yourself.  If a person does not and/or is excommunicated his/her name is blotted off of the membership of the Church.  Faith and works are required of a believer.  If one does not have this and then calls them self an atheist.....that person is not apart of us....but against us.

Originally posted by yishmael

Sorry. RLDS, FLDS and others do have a historical and legitimate claim to the word "Mormon", whether or not they embrace it. As does D. Michael Quinn and others who may have been excommunicated from the Brighamite faction.


Like I said.....they have been excommunicated from us because their beliefs which are not in keeping of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  They have apostatized from the teachings of Mormon Church so therefore they have been put away from us (excommunicated). 

We are not responsible for anything that these people have done or will do in the name of religion.  They have to deal with that...and move on to find another belief system that supports their beliefs and actions.  But it is not with us.  A bill of devorsement has been issued forth.  Move on. 


Originally posted by yishmael

Whether you and Janet like it or not, I'll continue to define myself by the *Mormon* label, which is my birthright. If I'm ever interested in your own interpretation, I'll look for the "Church of sbananamarie11" and see about ending meetings. Until then, you'll just have to deal with it.


It is not a birthright....it is a privilege....which privilege has been lost and withheld.  I am sorry that this is not the mutual feeling towards some who can't live without the Church.  Either shape up....or be shipped out.

You are looking for the doctrines of the Church to conform to who you are and how you want to live.  This is not the function of the Church......it may be acceptable at  to other religious institutions........but it is not acceptable to the Lord and his kingdom on the earth.

Conform yourself to God's will or move on to another organization that is set up to support people as they are looking to be supported in their various ways.  If you have received your identity from claiming to be a Mormon.....this is a good break from living a lie....and truly looking in the mirror and not to use an organization to support your identity.  I know it is scary to loose your identity, however, the identity that you have depended on is not real in the first place.  So see this as a blessing to know yourself and choose this day whom you will serve....yourself or God.

 
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jamilahz  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 4:52pm
Janet

Does the phrase 'give it a rest' ring a bell with you?
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Janet Waters  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by jamilahz

Janet

Does the phrase 'give it a rest' ring a bell with you?


If you had a person who was an atheist who was attempting to represent you and your beliefs....would you lay down and be a door mat?  What about a terrorist who is claiming to the world that Islam is terrorism.....thus opening you and your family to yet more prejustices?

If you had come across an impersonator who had accessed your bank would you not defend yourself?  Where I lay my treasure is far greater than any bank account.




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jamilahz  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 5:12pm
I understand where you are coming from but at this point you've called him every name in the book!  Just leave it alone... What do you get out of this?  
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Janet Waters  
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by jamilahz

I understand where you are coming from but at this point you've called him every name in the book!  Just leave it alone... What do you get out of this?


I am revealing his position for what it is....an impostor.  If that position reveals something personally about him.....oh well.


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