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InterReligious Dialogue
 Whyislam.org Forums : General : InterReligious Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Similarities between religions. Post Reply Post New Topic
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Janet Waters  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Janet Waters Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2008 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by waheed1

Originally posted by struggle

I don't see Angel Gabriel as a ghost or a human form. Oh now Angel Gabriel doesn't form a holy spirit.....ok no further questions.



I'm afraid I don't understand your statement here. Gabriel is sometimes called "the holy spirit" in Islam, and in Christendom the Holy spirit is seen as the third in the Trinity.

All I meant was that I was not commenting on which appearance Gabriel comes through, that of a dove, or a ghost, or of a human form. I was focusing on how I understood the role of Gabriel. Were you offended by that?


Sorry...this doctrine isn't one had "in common" with both religions.....however this is the missing link to show the validity of both religion's teachings.

All spirits sent from God are holy.....for none in HIS presence could be otherwise. Gabriel was a holy man on earth as well as a holy spirit in heaven.  Gabriel is the heavenly name for Noah.  After Christ's resurrection, the great patriarchs were also resurrected and seen by the believers.  Noah no doubt was one of them.

"The Holy Ghost" (The Holy Spirit) has never come to earth to gain a body (so therefore he doesn't have one in order to be resurrected) otherwise he could not dwell in our hearts.

The Holy Ghost is God's administrator whereby God's words are known.  He acts like an executive secretary to send administering angels to earth to accomplish God's will. 

There are angels who have not been born to this earth yet who are in the service of God.

There are angels who have been to this earth, gained a body, and who have died.

There are angels who are resurrected beings, who also serve God, some of whom (possiblly 1-7)  with the rank of Arch-Angels.  According to Jewish tradition there are 7 total I think.

Arch-Angels:
Michael:  Who is Adam
Gabriel:  Who is Noah
Raphael:  ? 

There are angels such as a Seraphim and a Cherubim who continually reside in God's presence, giving continual glory, honor , and adoration to Him.  Possibly these apply to perfected and resurrected angels--- is not clear.  However, they are angels of some particular order or rank to whom specific duties and work are assigned.




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Bill2702  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Bill2702 Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2008 at 1:06pm
They all think they are the only one.
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Janet Waters  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Janet Waters Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2008 at 1:30pm
So....... both statements are true:

(1)  Gabriel is a holy spirit....sent to do the will of God.
(2)  The Holy Ghost (The Holy Spirit) is not the same being as Gabriel.




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desertdude  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote desertdude Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2008 at 3:17pm
Sheeesh u guys just cant let go can you ....
We r not the conspiracy theorists on this issue.It seems 2 me like 19 amateurs with box cutters taking over four airliners and hitting 75 % of their targets-that feels like a conspiracy theory.C.Sheen
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote MedGirl Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2008 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by Sagefrakrobatik

Originally posted by Massu

Between the Abrahamic religions, at least, all three believe that their sacred scriptures are the Word of God, as relayed by a prophet or go-between of some kind (Judaism: Moses and the prophets and historians, Christianity: Jesus (pbuh) (as expressed by the evangelists), St. Paul, St. John of Patmos, other epistle writers, Islam: the prophets, culminating in Muhammad's (pbuh) reception of the Quran)
 
See this is what kills me. Anytime interreligious discussion is emphasized it only involves these three religions. For instance most of the discussion at my school that have been called interfaith have only involved those three groups. I believe we can learn alot from other groups if we try to become more inclusive. You dont have to agree with their theology but we should at least have their input.

You can compare any religion in this thread. Some people can choose to compare Buddhism and Hinduism, some can compare Islam and Christianity, or all 3 Abhrahamic Religions, or Pastafarians with Scientology. Anything will do.
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jamilahz  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote jamilahz Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2008 at 3:33pm
what is a pastafarian?  is that someone who worships pasta?
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote MedGirl Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2008 at 3:40pm
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Bill2702 Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2008 at 3:47pm
A Pastafarian worships the flying spaghetti monster. I thought everybody knew that!
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote MedGirl Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2008 at 4:13pm

I already learned a few things from the first page from Jamilah and Amy.

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yishmael  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote yishmael Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2008 at 5:41pm
Hi Brother Waheed,

Originally posted by waheed1



I'm afraid I don't understand your statement here. Gabriel is sometimes called "the holy spirit" in Islam, and in Christendom the Holy spirit is seen as the third in the Trinity.

All I meant was that I was not commenting on which appearance Gabriel comes through, that of a dove, or a ghost, or of a human form.


As I understand Islamic theology, Jibril/Gabriel is an angel, created of energy, and as such he has no free will. This would differentiate Jibril from a djinn, which is created from fire, and a human being, created from earth; both of which do have a will apart from G-d.

With this foundation in mind, it might help Mormons and others understand why Jibril is called the Holy Spirit by Muslims. As a being which can only do the will of G-d, it might be fair to say that this being is an emanation or projection of G-d, rather than a separate entity.

Mormons have a very different idea about what we call the Holy Ghost. Joseph Smith inaugurated an idea that we all existed as uncreated intelligences which first went through a process of gaining a spiritual body, and are here to gain a physical body. It is unclear to Mormons as to whether the Holy Ghost has yet to achieve a physical body, or whether s/he (many Mormons feel that the Holy Ghost is a feminine entity, but this is likewise uncertain) has voluntarily shed his/her physical body to play the part s/he currently plays; but, it is certain to Mormons that the Holy Ghost is a separate, distinct entity all his/her own.

In the Islamic theology, it seems as though Jibril might be thought of as an archetype or an emanation, rather than a character, in that he might be seen as a specific expression of G-d which reveals essential truths to humanity, rather than a character with a personality.

Please feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken on any of this. I'm sure I probably am, as I'm just beginning to understand the underlying structure of Islamic theological thought.
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jamilahz  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote jamilahz Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2008 at 5:45pm
Question for you Yish

Do all mormons think that Gabriel is the spirit of Noah? 
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Aviatrix Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2008 at 5:47pm

The Angel Gabriel is considered God's envoy who delivers revelation to the prophets of mankind. He is a messenger, and obeying God's will. But that doesn't mean he is just an "archetype" or "emanation."

For example, Muslims have an authentic and well-known story of the angel Gabriel visiting Muhammad among his companions. He sits in front of Muhammad and asks him some questions about Islam. Later Muhammad asks his companions about this man, if they knew who he was, and he tells them that it was the Angel Gabriel, sent to teach them their religion. We also have occasions of Gabriel greeting Muhammad's wife Khadeejah (greeting her with peace, I think) and promising her a house of pearls in Paradise.
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yishmael  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote yishmael Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2008 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by jamilahz

Question for you Yish


That's Brother Yish to you; or, if you prefer, Comrade Yish.

Originally posted by jamilahz


Do all mormons think that Gabriel is the spirit of Noah? 


Sort of a loaded question. Bear in mind that many Mormons (myself included) are completely secular. If you asked this Mormon that question, I'd answer that angels exist in good hearted human beings, and that Noah originated from a Sumerian story about a guy who went around saving people in his boat. His name was Gilgamesh.

Esoteric Mormonism does identify the Gabriel character in heaven with the Noah character on earth.

Interesting to note that Jewish people identify the two as well, but not as the same personality; rather with Gabriel being the warner of Noah and the spiritual guide as he built his ship and gathered the animals up.
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jamilahz  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote jamilahz Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2008 at 5:53pm
Well thank you Brother Yish

Do other Christians think that I wonder? 
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