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Bill2702  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Bill2702 Replybullet Posted: 27 April 2008 at 3:26pm
How can a God be offended by anything?
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jana.z  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote jana.z Replybullet Posted: 27 April 2008 at 3:43pm
my question is, how can any of us even guess what would offend God.
And hold fast, all together to the rope of Allah and do not separate.”Âl’ Imran:103)

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 27 April 2008 at 4:19pm
Eldon :
 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpret those words as meaning "God adored Jesus so much that He made Jesus equal to Himself" !
 
As Nura pointed out though, only God is worthy of adoration.
 
Jesus adored the Father, whom he called "my God and your God", but there is no record in the Bible of the Father adoring Jesus.
 
 
Damo:
Eldon.... the point i was making was not based on scripture i think you missed the whole point.
 The point is, what i have written is what Christians believe... not looking to poke into to scripture to put forth an argument. Its a purely philosophical question, based on pure hypothesis. Christians BELIEVE he was adored by the Father the apple of His eye in that respect. Hypothetically we may be wrong to believe this. I'm only looking for opinion on the same vice versa hypothesis with Islam .For direct word for word quotations, like Jesus said "He was God" , i'm going beyond that to the point of ... what the over-all majority believe  about the nature of God. To what the overall majority of Muslims believe, as in what common overall reflection of Allah, Muslims generally hold ingrained in them from the Quran. Going beyond these core beliefs. What hypothetically would be the most offensive to God.
 
 some believe i have  phrased the question with a 5lb mash hammer .. but there's middle ground somewhere.. i'd say for both sides of such an argument there would need to be some fine tuning with some acknowleging of sensitivity on either side.
 
 
Originally posted by Aviatrix

Here's another thought for you, Damo. If a person were to raise Jesus equal to God and worship Jesus, then he would be committing the worst sin in Islam, a sin that God even says He doesn't forgive.
 
 That confuses me because although i know its a grave sin as you say. Though the Quran does teach that some people of the book  enter paradise.
 
]
Originally posted by Bill2702

How can a God be offended by anything?
 
Exodus 32

22 And he answered him: Let not my lord be offended: for thou knowest this people, that they are prone to evil.

 Baruch 3 8: And behold we are at this day in our captivity, whereby thou hast scattered us to be a reproach, and a curse, and an offence, according to all the iniquities of our fathers, who departed from thee, O Lord our God.
 
 Acts Of Apostles 24

16 And herein do I endeavour to have always a conscience without offence toward God, and towards men

 Romans 5

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned through one; much more they who receive abundance of grace, and of the gift, and of justice, shall reign in life through one, Jesus Christ.

 If sin does not offend God, then why warn against it. Disobedience to God by any standards be it Christian or Islamic is a personal offence towards God
 
 
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 27 April 2008 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by Bill2702

How can a God be offended by anything?
 
 Exodus 32

22 And he answered him: Let not my lord be offended: for thou knowest this people, that they are prone to evil.

 
 Baruch 3 8: And behold we are at this day in our captivity, whereby thou hast scattered us to be a reproach, and a curse, and an offence, according to all the iniquities of our fathers, who departed from thee, O Lord our God.
 
 Acts Of Apostles 24

16 And herein do I endeavour to have always a conscience without offence toward God, and towards men

 Romans 5

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned through one; much more they who receive abundance of grace, and of the gift, and of justice, shall reign in life through one, Jesus Christ.

 If sin does not offend God, then why warn against it. Disobedience to God by any standards be it Christian or Islamic is a personal offence towards God
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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desertdude  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote desertdude Replybullet Posted: 27 April 2008 at 5:58pm
 Ok not to answer a question with a question ,I would like to ask/elaborate a littl futher what Sis Nurs said .If you dont adore jesus as gods son or just as much ,who would be offened more.Jesus or God ?or the holy ghost ?
We r not the conspiracy theorists on this issue.It seems 2 me like 19 amateurs with box cutters taking over four airliners and hitting 75 % of their targets-that feels like a conspiracy theory.C.Sheen
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 27 April 2008 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by desertdude

 Ok not to answer a question with a question ,I would like to ask/elaborate a littl futher what Sis Nurs said .If you dont adore jesus as gods son or just as much ,who would be offened more.Jesus or God ?or the holy ghost ?
 
 
 DD.. we agree on very little, but at least you can relate to the hypothesis, and come in with a related hypothetical response. And you ask a fair enough question.
 
 I guess if from the Christian perspective. It is to the delight of the Father that His Son is adored by humanity. For if in the hypothesis the Christian perspective is right, then it must follow that it was intended to have been that way by God the Father. Further its a belief of both Muslims and Christians that Christ will return albeit on differing terms, but ultimately if again by this hypothesis Jesus is God, it can be assumed that he could be offended, but ultimately in the position to forgive.
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Bill2702  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Bill2702 Replybullet Posted: 28 April 2008 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by Damo808

Originally posted by Bill2702

How can a God be offended by anything?
 
 Exodus 32

22 And he answered him: Let not my lord be offended: for thou knowest this people, that they are prone to evil.

 
 Baruch 3 8: And behold we are at this day in our captivity, whereby thou hast scattered us to be a reproach, and a curse, and an offence, according to all the iniquities of our fathers, who departed from thee, O Lord our God.
 
 Acts Of Apostles 24

16 And herein do I endeavour to have always a conscience without offence toward God, and towards men

 Romans 5

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned through one; much more they who receive abundance of grace, and of the gift, and of justice, shall reign in life through one, Jesus Christ.

 If sin does not offend God, then why warn against it. Disobedience to God by any standards be it Christian or Islamic is a personal offence towards God
 
 
The act of taking offense is an emotional one. Yet the religions state that God is above being influenced by or having any human attributes. The word offense implies insult, indignation and typically leads to revenge, retribution, all very much attributes of human nature. So if God is above all these things then then the word is not offense but something else. It would seem to me that God simply judges according to the rules he has set for the weighing up of the fate of a human. To call it offense diminishes God to a being controlled by emotion which for one who has no faults (according to religion) would be impossible.
 
 


Edited by Bill2702 - 28 April 2008 at 1:20pm
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struggle  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote struggle Replybullet Posted: 28 April 2008 at 1:57pm

God has humanity holy wisdom in the bible so some of it could not be exactly what it is. Maybe he put what is acceptable or not. So basically the reality could be the allusion of God's control. I think this punishment of God is part of the allusion too but its true, wise, and thought out. Possible of all this God could be aiming or creating the future and not the present or past which we hold on to make our future better.



Edited by struggle - 28 April 2008 at 2:00pm
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Islamway  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Islamway Replybullet Posted: 28 April 2008 at 2:17pm
You can't guess what would offend someone unless you know him .. The only thing through which we know God is his words (scriptures) .. there are many gods out there who have different attributes than the Abrahamic God.
 
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Bill2702  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Bill2702 Replybullet Posted: 28 April 2008 at 2:26pm
You might want to think a bit about what you just said Islamway.
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 28 April 2008 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by Bill2702

Originally posted by Damo808

Originally posted by Bill2702

How can a God be offended by anything?
 
 Exodus 32

22 And he answered him: Let not my lord be offended: for thou knowest this people, that they are prone to evil.

 
 Baruch 3 8: And behold we are at this day in our captivity, whereby thou hast scattered us to be a reproach, and a curse, and an offence, according to all the iniquities of our fathers, who departed from thee, O Lord our God.
 
 Acts Of Apostles 24

16 And herein do I endeavour to have always a conscience without offence toward God, and towards men

 Romans 5

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned through one; much more they who receive abundance of grace, and of the gift, and of justice, shall reign in life through one, Jesus Christ.

 If sin does not offend God, then why warn against it. Disobedience to God by any standards be it Christian or Islamic is a personal offence towards God
 
 
The act of taking offense is an emotional one. Yet the religions state that God is above being influenced by or having any human attributes. The word offense implies insult, indignation and typically leads to revenge, retribution, all very much attributes of human nature. So if God is above all these things then then the word is not offense but something else. It would seem to me that God simply judges according to the rules he has set for the weighing up of the fate of a human. To call it offense diminishes God to a being controlled by emotion which for one who has no faults (according to religion) would be impossible.
 
 
 
 
 
Bill... before i respond .. do you have any religious leanings ? What are they ?
 
 
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Bill2702  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Bill2702 Replybullet Posted: 29 April 2008 at 3:10am
Hi Damo,
 
For the purpose of this discussion the answer is no. It depends on how you define religious.
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 29 April 2008 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by Bill2702

Hi Damo,
 
For the purpose of this discussion the answer is no. It depends on how you define religious.
 
 
  Well i could understand your perspective had you been Muslim.
 But as a Christian, i believe if God is a God of compassion and mercy, these traits suggest to me that there is a part of God in us rather than a part of us in God. Other traits such as anger belong to God as well as humans. It is human dis-obedience which causes God to be angry. Anger in the human sense is as much an emotional term as happyness. We also see that there are times when God is angry , he can me "moved" to re-consider and show a more merciful side. This is true in Judges 2 :12-19.
 This verse demonstrates that God does have what may be considered emotion. Again i believe that human concepts such as emotion, concsience etc are things embodied in us which are also in God also. I don't think this hints towards any kind of weakness, but demonstrates that He did infact create us in a way that is reflective of Himself IMO. Which is why when i say offend God, i don't suggest God is struggling to come to terms emotionaly with what man does but, can empathise with humanity enough to akcnowlege offence.


Edited by Damo808 - 29 April 2008 at 1:11pm
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote scruggnut Replybullet Posted: 29 April 2008 at 7:13pm
If god could be offended at all, i believe that he would be offended by the way that most of his so called believers behave.
Waiting an eternity for an apology from one who never apologizes but always demands one.
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