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Message Icon Topic: Is converting to Islam really converting Post Reply Post New Topic
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jana.z  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote jana.z Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2008 at 3:21pm
thats true too...!
 
i just finished praying duhr and afterwards i was thinking how we pepper our conversations with terms like inshallah, alhamdulilah etc and so since these words are arabic i think non muslims pick up on that too thinking because we say these things we are becoming arab.
 
 
And hold fast, all together to the rope of Allah and do not separate.”Âl’ Imran:103)

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yishmael  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote yishmael Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2008 at 4:10pm
Salaam Islamaholic (great nym, by the way) and Jana,

Ms. Manji (a Bengaladeshi who lived much of her childhood in Uganda) described a debate between various Muslims at a university. At one point, some of the scholars were talking about hijab being voluntary, rather than mandatory, as was determined by scholars in their countries (Oceania I believe). These men and women were heckled by spectators, who shouted that Auntie Irshad and her peers weren't "real Muslims" because they weren't Arabs.

Whether Arab cultural artifacts can ever really be separated from Islam in toto is not something I can speculate on. I just know it seems to be a point of contention with many people. I also think that knowledge of authentic European Islam (as in Andalusia, and the forgotten Muslims of Scandinavia) and African Islam would go a long way toward integrating Islam into the cultural fabric of the Americas and Europe.

Islam should be recognized by Westerners as an authentic part of our own culture, rather than as something inherently foreign. I don't say that because it's politically correct, but simply because it's accurate. I always wondered where we got the scholasticism movement which led to the renaissance. If you study at a Western university you are left with the delusion that these movements sprang up out of nowhere. In reality, it was trade and interaction with Islam that partly catalyzed it.
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Aviatrix  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Aviatrix Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2008 at 4:34pm

Islam is not about Arab Imperialism--not at all. Not even sure who creates these terms. Muslims are brothers, an ummah which has the meaning that they all share a mother. We have the same deen, not necessarily the same culture. Arabs make up less than 20% of all Muslims in the world.

Muhammad (saws) himself, who was an Arab, said the following:
 
An Arab is no better than a non-Arab. In return, a non-Arab is no better than an Arab. A red raced man was not better than a black one except in piety. Mankind are all Adam's children and Adam was created out of clay.
 
A friend of mine once described Islam as being a pure stream of water, that flowed through different lands, and as it flowed it took on the color and characteristics of the land. So Islam in SouthAsia picked up some characteristics from there, and Islam in Africa picked up characteristics from there. And Islam in the USA has picked up some characteristics from here as well.
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khany  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote khany Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2008 at 5:29pm
hello brooklyn,

it seems your friend's arabisation is self inflicted.
the diversity of muslim cultures throughout the ages is witness to islam's cultural flexibility. how could anybody not see the differences between andalucian, north afrian, sub saharan, egyptian, gulf arab, turkish, levantine, central asian, iranian, afghan, south asian, south-east asian, chinese, european and american muslim cultures!

there are some who hold to the belief that muslims should be united in religion and culture. their voices are few and far. refer back to the list of cultures if you need convincing. if anything muslim cultures, and other non-muslim cultures, are perhaps at a risk of being dominated by western mores. believe me nobody is losing sleep over the imagined threat of arabisation.


Edited by khany - 30 April 2008 at 5:30pm
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Brooklyn  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Brooklyn Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2008 at 9:33pm
Originally posted by khany

hello brooklyn,

it seems your friend's arabisation is self inflicted.
the diversity of muslim cultures throughout the ages is witness to islam's cultural flexibility. how could anybody not see the differences between andalucian, north afrian, sub saharan, egyptian, gulf arab, turkish, levantine, central asian, iranian, afghan, south asian, south-east asian, chinese, european and american muslim cultures!

 
Hello,
 
Not to be offensive but to a guy like me North African, Egyptian, Gulf Arab, Tukish, Iranian, Afghan Muslims etc... all seem pretty much Arabized.  Many of these areas were part of the West under the Roman empire and Christian.  Now there former past is unrecognizeable and they appear essentially Arab.  I can't tell the difference between any of these cultures, not that they don't exist but to me all Muslim countries seem dominated by Arab culture.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Guests Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2008 at 9:35pm
Have you ever been to any of these countries?
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jana.z  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote jana.z Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2008 at 9:41pm
well one thing.....some of those countries you listed?  they ARE arabs
And hold fast, all together to the rope of Allah and do not separate.”Âl’ Imran:103)

http://myimmatureviewpoint.blogspot.com/
http://solomuslimah.blogspot.com/
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Brooklyn  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Brooklyn Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2008 at 9:43pm
Originally posted by Kadaveri

Have you ever been to any of these countries?
 
Yeah I've to a few of them in the service.  Admitedly mostly gulf states though.
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Aviatrix  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Aviatrix Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2008 at 9:55pm
I usually think about the way the people dress and the food they eat. Around here you can pretty much tell where a person is from by how they dress. The way people from Morocco dress, or from Egypt, very different. And then Gulf Arabs dress different from that. But once you get to India, Pakistan.. even Afghanistan--that is completely different.
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Ibn Al-Akwa  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Ibn Al-Akwa Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2008 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by yishmael

I just got done reading a book by Irshad Manji (I'm sure that'll get mixed reviews here). For those who don't know, she's a faithful South Asian Muslim who is critical of extremism.



Thanks for making me laugh.... She sure is faithful, but not Muslim...

Edited by Ibn Al-Akwa - 30 April 2008 at 10:02pm
8:36: Indeed, those who disbelieve spend their wealth to avert [people] from the way of Allah. So they will spend it; then it will be for them a [source of] regret; then they will be overcome.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Guests Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2008 at 10:00pm
Well luckily for you there aren't many Turks or Iranians hanging around this site; I don't think you realise just how offended they'd be to hear their culture being called 'essentially Arab'.

What is 'Arab' culture?
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Brooklyn  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Brooklyn Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2008 at 10:11pm
Originally posted by Kadaveri

Well luckily for you there aren't many Turks or Iranians hanging around this site; I don't think you realise just how offended they'd be to hear their culture being called 'essentially Arab'.

What is 'Arab' culture?
 
Well Turkey is a country I have been to along with Bahrain, Kuwait, U.A.E. Oman and I found Turkey to be no different culture wise than any of the Arab Gulf States.  It was definitely "arabized" and completely unrecognizeable of its western past.  They were a conquered people who lost their culture completely.
 
Anyway we're getting off topic.  Why does a guy who used to John Jones become Muhammad Abdullah after converting?  Why does he walk around saying Inshallah and talking in Arabic and essentially dressing like an arab, watching arab t.v. talking like an arab etc...
 
To an outsider it looks like you have to convert to being an arab when you convert to being a Muslim.
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hamayoun  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote hamayoun Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2008 at 10:18pm
Salam

Irshad Manji is not a reliable source, she has her own axe to grind.

Brooklyn needs a lesson in geography, methinks. 
May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

My blog: http://regularbaba.blogspot.com/
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Guests Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2008 at 10:23pm
And history, as the Turks were never conquered by the Arabs (in fact, it was the other way round). 
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