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amoxoxoma  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote amoxoxoma Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2008 at 3:20am
Originally posted by Kadaveri

It's wierd that in the early years of Islam being a Muslim and being an Arab were treated as if they were conflicting opposites, like it was one or the other. 

Have you read the Qur'an Brooklyn?
 
Kad..... you have me puzzled. I thought ALL the early muslims were Arabs. Wasn't that the case until Arab muslims went on Jihad into Northern Africa and Iraq/Iran after the prophet's death?
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amoxoxoma  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote amoxoxoma Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2008 at 3:24am
Originally posted by jana.z

...but the names they should be choosing are generally islamic names. you said john becomes abdullah which means male servant of Allah. thats very appropriate. and as jamilah said, perhaps ppl want to immerse themselves in their religion. perhaps they want to do anything they can to "feel" islam.

Do western reverts take on Pakistani, or Indonesian names? No, the "Islamic" names they take are Arabic.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Guests Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2008 at 3:35am
Originally posted by Amox

Kad..... you have me puzzled. I thought ALL the early muslims were Arabs. Wasn't that the case until Arab muslims went on Jihad into Northern Africa and Iraq/Iran after the prophet's death?


Well actually a significant proportion of the early Muslims were black (freed slaves), though I know that's not the point you were making. What I meant by that was that the Arabs of the Prophet's time thought accepting Islam to be a betrayal of Arab values. Notice how the Qur'an spends a lot of time scrutinising people for following something merely because it was the way of their fathers? That's who it's talking to.

This attitude is still around in the Arab world. I recall one Western commentator simplistically (though insightfully) describing the political struggle of the 20th Century Arab world as being between the Generals and the Sheikhs; the Generals being people like Gamal Nasser, Saddam Hussain and Muammar Al-Qaddafi who wanted to reconstruct the Arab world around the ideals of the 19th Century Western enlightment; the Sheikhs like the royal families of Saudi Arabia and Jordan, who wanted to form a modern Arab world around the 'traditional values' of Arab culture (that is, pre-Islamic); and then commented that in the 21st Century the Generals have mostly fallen, but a new political force, the 'Imams' who wanted to build a society inspired by Islam, has risen out of the shadows to challenge the Sheikhs.

Which isn't entirely correct, but I did find it interesting to read such thinking in an British newspaper (think it was the Guardian), distinguishing the 'Arabists' from the 'Islamists'.

And one a similar topic, did you read the thread I opened about Turkey? Would be interested to hear your views on that.
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saira3  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote saira3 Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2008 at 9:09am
Originally posted by hamayoun

Salam

I personally don't see a problem with a shalwar kameez for modesty.

An abaya is really a kaftan; kaftan's are used all over the world, including Europe and Africa.


I normally wear a shalwar kameez at home but its totally not appropriate or in any way modest to wear outside without a jilbab or abaya, because of the way its made....imo anyway
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jana.z  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote jana.z Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2008 at 9:31am
Originally posted by amoxoxoma

Originally posted by jana.z

...but the names they should be choosing are generally islamic names. you said john becomes abdullah which means male servant of Allah. thats very appropriate. and as jamilah said, perhaps ppl want to immerse themselves in their religion. perhaps they want to do anything they can to "feel" islam.

Do western reverts take on Pakistani, or Indonesian names? No, the "Islamic" names they take are Arabic.
 
i work with a few paki's and indonesian muslims who are already born with the "arabic" name........
 
because the language of the Qu'ran is arabic............there is noone that should have a problem with that at all.
 
 
my biggest question is, why does it bother anyone at all...anyone...how someone dresses, acts, decorates their home, watches their tv after they revert.  there is noone crying when someone beceomes "born again" and starts to wear dresses from little house on the prairie and huge crosses and their hair in a bun.
 
its private and its personal and i would rather see someone dressed like an "arab" than their bellybuttons and rears hanging out with nothing left to the imagination.
 
everyone wants to prove that muslim reverts are morphing into arabs. i wish i could post a pic of myself here and you would say oh shes def not an arab! 
 
as long as it doesnt affect you then please try not to worry yourself.
 
sorry...all of this trivialness gets very stale.
 
 
 
And hold fast, all together to the rope of Allah and do not separate.”Âl’ Imran:103)

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jamilahz  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote jamilahz Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2008 at 10:45am
Stale is a very good word for this... 
www.hudastore.com

www.theoneislam.com
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amoxoxoma  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote amoxoxoma Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2008 at 2:11am
Originally posted by jana.z

..... 
because the language of the Qu'ran is arabic............there is noone that should have a problem with that at all.
 
 
No problem here jana. It's common for reverts to Catholic christianity to take a "christian" name at baptism or confirmation too.
 
It's just that what you have said makes it clear that an acceptable "Islamic" name is really an arabic name.
 
Originally posted by jana.z

my biggest question is, why does it bother anyone at all...anyone...how someone dresses, acts, decorates their home, watches their tv after they revert.  there is noone crying when someone beceomes "born again" and starts to wear dresses from little house on the prairie and huge crosses and their hair in a bun.
 The only thing that is bothersome is affectation, whether done by muslim reverts, or converts to any other religion. Affectations are a nod to superficial and outward appearances. 
Originally posted by jana.z

its private and its personal and i would rather see someone dressed like an "arab" than their bellybuttons and rears hanging out with nothing left to the imagination.
LOL, yes I agree.
 
Originally posted by jana.z

everyone wants to prove that muslim reverts are morphing into arabs. i wish i could post a pic of myself here and you would say oh shes def not an arab!
   .... carefull with the use of absolutes like "everyone."
 
Originally posted by jana.z

as long as it doesnt affect you then please try not to worry yourself.
 
sorry...all of this trivialness gets very stale.
  
 
No need to be worried yourself over someone elses worries. As some guru somewhere once said - "Don't worry. Be happy."
The more deeply we are our true selves, the less self is in us.
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khany  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote khany Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2008 at 3:52am
many born muslims and reverts take on names of prophets (the majority of them are not arab prophets).
so the names adam, musa, yusuf, ibrahim, da'ud, sulaiman, ismail, issa... are you (amox) suggesting these are arabic names? they might be arabized. they are names of prophets who are significant to muslims wherever they may have lived and whatever culture they may have belonged to. the names reverts adopt are often names of significant muslims. salman (r.a.) was a persian companion of the prophet, bilal (r.a.) was a freed black slave, suhayeb (r.a.) was a byzantine. these are all muslim names.
 
i also think that it is judgmental to assume that outward and manifest changes of appearance are merely a show. they serve several purposes. for example:
1) they serve as constant and manifest reminders to the revert that they have made a huge change in their modes of thinking.
2) they serve as reminders to the outside world that this person now has a different world view. thus his old friends will be reminded before they offer to him a beer, for example.
3) have you heard of 'fake it until you make it'? shakespear expresses it in a more sophisticated manner 'Assume a virtue, if you have it not.' the idea is not to be superficial or to show off to the world. but if you are sincerely trying to attain something virtuous then pushing ahead is often helpful. and the something virtuous, in this context, could be emulating the life of the prophet (peace be upon him).
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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khany  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote khany Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2008 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by Aviatrix

A friend of mine once described Islam as being a pure stream of water, that flowed through different lands, and as it flowed it took on the color and characteristics of the land. So Islam in SouthAsia picked up some characteristics from there, and Islam in Africa picked up characteristics from there. And Islam in the USA has picked up some characteristics from here as well.
 
i believe your friend read the following article by dr. omar farooq abdullah called 'islam and the cultural imperative'. http://www.nawawi.org/downloads/article3.pdf the article is very relevant to the present discussion.
 
in the article dr. omar states:
In history, Islam showed itself to be culturally friendly and, in that regard, has been likened to a crystal clear river. Its waters (Islam) are pure, sweet, and life-giving but—having no color of their own—reflect the bedrock (indigenous culture) over which they flow. In China, Islam looked Chinese; in Mali, it looked African. Sustained cultural relevance to distinct peoples, diverse places, and different times underlay Islam’s long success as a global civilization.
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amoxoxoma  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote amoxoxoma Replybullet Posted: 04 May 2008 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by khany

.....
so the names adam, musa, yusuf, ibrahim, da'ud, sulaiman, ismail, issa... are you (amox) suggesting these are arabic names? they might be arabized. 
Arabized... arabic.... to the outsiders such as myself, who apparently live in a cultural backwash, it does appear the same, but I now see the difference. Thanks for pointing it out for me.
 
Originally posted by khany

i also think that it is judgmental to assume that outward and manifest changes of appearance are merely a show. they serve several purposes.  
 
 
I didn't mean to imply that all those who change their way of dress or lifestyle do so for superficial reasons. Far from it.  The 3 reasons you listed are valid.
 
But I believe God judges the heart, not necessarily the clothes we wear, or whether we pray in public.
 
 
The more deeply we are our true selves, the less self is in us.
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