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devd  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote devd Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2008 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by maghi85

there are necessities and then there are wants


Assalam u alaikum wa rahmatulahi wa baakatuhu,

We want paved roads, they aren't necessary. We want chilled bottled water, it's not a necessity. In fact, if you're all about what's necessary, then minimal food, water, a clothsack to wear, a rock to hide behind when the weather gets bad and the love of Allah Subhannahuu Wata ala is all you need. Everything else is extravagance.

Where's your line drawn?


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jamilahz  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote jamilahz Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2008 at 11:16pm
Does the rock have A/C?
www.hudastore.com

www.theoneislam.com
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devd  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote devd Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2008 at 11:25pm
Only if the wind is blowin' cold!
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maghi85  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote maghi85 Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2008 at 4:42am
nope that goes to the level of zuhud
zuhud is not a necessity
it's again another want of the mystics or one serious on his path
necessity would be
paved roads for cars to travel smoothly with out being spoiled
homes with basic necessities like bed, toilet, running water, refrigerator, a fan and if it really gets hot then a ac would be necessary especially for people who are not used to such heat... because most people won't be able to sleep in that heat unless they're used to it.
no need for a TV
a market with basic necessities
no need for flipping HYPER MARKETS

they could've easily built the houses a few kilometers away from the ka'ba because most people nowadays have no adab for the Holy Sanctuary
so the houses if kept far away then people won't get the sin of doing what they do all the time (i.e. back bite, etc) and then connect the buildings with a metro rail all the way to the like a 100 meters from the ka'ba

KFC, McDonalds, etc are no necessities
clothes shop with flipping manicans wearing jeans and tight clothes are no necessities

health facilities
security
control of traffic
proper control of human traffic
drinking water but not to excess
(cause now because of people's appetite they're diluting zam zam with other water and hence even the taste of zam zam is different)

and the likes
i hope this clarifies what i mean by necessities and wants


Edited by maghi85 - 20 July 2008 at 7:12am
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whirlingEcstasy  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote whirlingEcstasy Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2008 at 7:05am
Originally posted by UmarZ

So then I assume you would all be in favor of leveling the current buildings, except the ka'aba of course and returning the whole area to dirt like it was in the time of the Prophet(saaws)?


Does any hadith say that it was a place of dirt nauzubillah ? I think you need to mind you language.
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maghi85  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote maghi85 Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2008 at 7:10am
i think by dirt he meant dust and sand
not the other meaning of dirt as in filth
i hope he didn't
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whirlingEcstasy  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote whirlingEcstasy Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2008 at 7:11am
So finally the money of Haji's will go to Hilton. Thats great.
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whirlingEcstasy  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote whirlingEcstasy Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2008 at 7:15am
Originally posted by mai moslemah

There is everything in Mecca suit all level, rich and poor and yes some places which is near to the Kabaa are cheap .

Regardless THE EXPANTION IS A VERY GOOD IDEA :)



No one is opposing the expansion, but there are some ethics of expansion.
Preserve the heritage sites and involve Muslim businesses into it instead of non Muslim Hilton's. This is just rampant commercialisation and exploitation.
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whirlingEcstasy  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote whirlingEcstasy Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2008 at 7:18am
Originally posted by UmarZ

Because you are all complaining about how horrible it is. If you put it into perspective of how it was at the time of the Prophet(saaws) to how it is now that is a much greater change than the proposed expansion would be. 


I think because you are from USA so you would prefer it to look like any american city.
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whirlingEcstasy  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote whirlingEcstasy Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2008 at 7:21am
Originally posted by hamayoun

Salam
* Hajj is a logisitical nightmare for anyone who has to organize it.  Maybe it would be wiser to ask the organizers why they propose such "luxury" rather than question thier motives.  Maybe this plan is being invoked for logisitcal reasons.


For logistical reasons you don't need to involve the yahud and nasara in hajj.

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whirlingEcstasy  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote whirlingEcstasy Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2008 at 7:22am
It just reminds me of the time before Islam came to makkah and the city was important for its rulers as a source of wealth from the travellers. Now we have the same thing coming up again.
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weeweeman86
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote weeweeman86 Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2008 at 8:23am
Salam, I think they should keep some places in Makkah and Madinah as a resevation or untouch for historical sites, without demolishing its original landscape in the time of Rasul(PBUH)and places which are sacred with full of histories with lessons into something different. I am aware that the Hajj will attract more people from its previous years, therefore more development and services are needed for the pilgrims. But there should be some other alternatives, like for example how to make life easier for more and more pilgrims every year without changing the environment as much as possible to meet both the expansion of the Two Holy Mosques in Makkah and Madinah to accomodate worshippers and to keep its original heritage and landscape as it was at the time of the Prophet(PBUH), especially places which are seen or mentioned as significant. Apart from expansion, I think some areas need the natural environment which I feel is important and leaving it exactly as it was in the time of Rasul(PBUH) gives the pilgrim the divine understanding how the prophet(PBUH) lived and makes the Heart clear from all obstacles. It should be noted that it will be alot easier for pilgrims to focus the rewards of the life hereafter for performing the sacred rituals during Hajj, especially when the hearts are clear from obstacles.

I'm not against the expansion, but a balance is required for both without harming the environment which are seen as Sacred or Holy by many Muslims, especially with the rules of ihram are implied.

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weeweeman86
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote weeweeman86 Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2008 at 10:44am
Again I'm Sorry, Assalamualaikum, I think they should keep some places in Makkah and Madinah as a resevation or untouch for historical sites, without demolishing its original landscape in the time of Rasul(PBUH)and places which are sacred with full of histories with lessons into something different. I am aware that the Hajj will attract more people from its previous years, therefore more development and services are needed for the pilgrims. But there should be some other alternatives, like for example how to make life easier for more and more pilgrims every year without changing the environment as much as possible to meet both the expansion of the Two Holy Mosques in Makkah and Madinah to accomodate worshippers and to keep its original heritage and landscape as it was at the time of the Prophet(PBUH), especially places which are seen or mentioned as significant. Apart from expansion, I think some areas need the natural environment which I feel is important and leaving it exactly as it was in the time of Rasul(PBUH) gives the pilgrim the divine understanding how the prophet(PBUH) lived and makes the Heart clear from all obstacles. It should be noted that it will be alot easier for pilgrims to focus the rewards of the life hereafter, rather just here for site-seeing when performing the sacred rituals during Hajj, especially when the hearts are clear from obstacles.

I'm not against the expansion, but a balance is required for both without harming the environmental heritage which are seen as Sacred or Holy by many Muslims, especially with the rules of ihram are implied.
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devd  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote devd Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2008 at 11:11am
Originally posted by maghi85

nope that goes to the level of zuhud
zuhud is not a necessity
...
a market with basic necessities
no need for flipping HYPER MARKETS
...
 
KFC, McDonalds, etc are no necessities
clothes shop with flipping manicans wearing jeans and tight clothes are no necessities

health facilities
security
control of traffic
proper control of human traffic
drinking water but not to excess
(cause now because of people's appetite they're diluting zam zam with other water and hence even the taste of zam zam is different)

and the likes
i hope this clarifies what i mean by necessities and wants
 
Thank you for the clarification.
 
Along that same line, I'll say that my brief commentary had nothing to do with being disinterested in the things of this world as a show of faith, but rather showed what was needed in order to not die forthwith. What was necessary to maintain life.
 
You feel that paved roads are necessary, because you see that the use of cars is systemic to the human condition in this modern world.
 
You feel KFC is not a necessity, but having a market with basic necessities is. Perhaps there are those who consider chicken cooked with the Colonol's secret recipe to be a necessity, on par with a lone merchant selling dates from the back of a camel?
 
If the expansion realizes the promise of its plan, 40 years after it's complete you can be sure there will be people who will be having this same conversation, except the expanded masjid will be their, "necessity," and any additions thereof will be flipping hyper extravagances.
 
But I'm just positing a viewpoint, I do understand what you're saying and I don't care to see Ronald MacDonald dancing for money outside the ka'ba.
 
All of this brings up a question...I'll start a new thread.
 
 
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