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Message Icon Topic: Expansion of Masjid Al Haram in Mecca Post Reply Post New Topic
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weeweeman86
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote weeweeman86 Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2008 at 3:07am


I like the idea of chilled zamzam water in a bottle and having mcdonald's or KFC as part of basic consumption, but not Ronald Mcdonald dancing for money outside the Ka'abah...

(no no no!!! this is out of context)
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Islamaholic
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Islamaholic Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2008 at 7:47am
I really don't see what the big fuss is about.  They need to accomodate the number of pilgrims hence they expand and create accomodation for them.  They could restrict the amount of people they allow each year, but ask the people who made all preparations for their pilgrimage and then were refused a visa.
 
Yes, unfortunately its beginning to look like Dubai outside the haram, but the authorities don't have a choice really.  They create hotels right outside of the haram because of the expectations of the pilgrims.   Pilgrims want their hotels as close as possible to the haram.  They don't like walking long distances for their prayers because it gets very busy.
 
Makkah has always been a city of trade and commerce. So, they make their profits during hajj and Umrah.   At the end of the day, the core places for pilgrims are the two harams in Makkah and Madina, the format of these places haven't changed much and its still possible to attain spirituality in these places if you really want it.
 
ma'salam
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LtTony  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote LtTony Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2008 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by whirlingEcstasy

Spiritual marketing and money shared between the corrupt royal princes and the jews and christians as usual.

 
"As usual"??  Why blame non-muslims?  We can't even visit the place. I find this remark extremely offensive.
 
P.S.
Originally posted by hamayoun

Salam
Ok, few things.  First and foremost, whether one dislikes or likes the Saudis shouldn't come into this.  This action should be judged purely on Islamic lines, not who is doing it.

 
Uh, hama.  You forgot us non-saudis shouldn't come into it, either.  Or are you on the same page as whirling?
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Nura Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2008 at 1:09pm
I really don't understand why non-Muslim are so upset about Mecca.
You know Tony, there is a part of Greece called Mounth Athos, and until some years ago just orthodox christian men could visit it. I know it because my uncle went many years ago and told me recently about it.
 
As a Muslim I could teoretically take part to a mass in Vatican or stay in an orthodox cluster (not sure) but why should I want to? I would find it a lack of respect towards the people who go there because it's a part of their religion. Beside Mecca, non-Muslims can visit every other mosque in the world.
Spare me the political events and power struggles, as the whole earth is my homeland and all men are my fellow countrymen. K.Gibran
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LtTony  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote LtTony Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2008 at 1:57pm
 
I was merely stating a fact regarding Mecca, not resuming this:
 
I know nothing about Mount Athos, but would characterize the segregation you describe as plain wrong.  Just as wrong as whirling is in blaming (absent) non-muslims for troubles in Mecca hospitality and service industries.
 
Maybe you agree with him, I don't know.  But I grow tired of it.  That, and decrying perceived slights of islam but rarely repudiating the intolerance expressed by the likes of whirling and others here. 
 
"As a Muslim I could teoretically take part to a mass in Vatican or stay in an orthodox cluster (not sure) but why should I want to? I would find it a lack of respect towards the people who go there because it's a part of their religion."
 
You shouldn't feel that way.  You are welcome to join in or just visit.
 
 
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
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maghi85  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote maghi85 Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2008 at 3:18pm
LtTony
i think whirling finds Hilton and other non-Muslim corporations as not the cause for trouble in Mecca but he finds them sacrilegious in a way that they bring in the secular culture and way of life in to the sacred land.
I think all religions would abhor that. I mean I don't think the Buddhists or the Hindus would like a KFC or a McDonalds outside their sacred temples and lands
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LtTony  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote LtTony Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2008 at 5:44pm
Sorry, but you're splitting hairs, in denial or blind.
 
 
Originally posted by whirlingEcstasy

Spiritual marketing and money shared between the corrupt royal princes and the jews and christians as usual.
 
 
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2008 at 6:19pm
Originally posted by Emad

Makkah is a place of spirituality, not materialism. ...
 
 
That's true
 
However, life does evolve and change with time
 
Makkah today is not what it used to be 20 years ago, 200 years ago or 1400 years ago
 
Accommodation is more comfortable, and hotels are better, though more expensive
 
Keeping a balance between spirituality and modern facilities when doing Hajj or Umrah is a personal choice ...
 
There are more pilgrims each year, and it's important that Makkah and Madinah can accommodate them
 
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote maghi85 Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2008 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by LtTony

Sorry, but you're splitting hairs, in denial or blind.
 
 
Originally posted by whirlingEcstasy

Spiritual marketing and money shared between the corrupt royal princes and the jews and christians as usual.
 
 


it wouldn't be so unnatural for some Muslims in the Eastern Hemisphere to believe that the west is in fact a Judea-Christian alliance and at some times allied against Islam... especially now that two Muslim countries have been  invaded and occupied.
Iraq occupied under the dictates of Israel. and now Iran is threatened to be invaded while there is a huge US military base in Saudi Arabia which the Saudi Royal family pays billions each year to protect it's theocracy.
lets not forget the dozens of time US single-handedly vetoes against sanctions posed on Israel which the Muslims consider anything but logical and utterly bias.
lets also not forget the corrosion of infinite cultures because of the neocon and evangelical Christian agenda of "lets just make everyone like us and the world will be in peace"
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote LtTony Replybullet Posted: 23 July 2008 at 12:04am
 
What does that hogwash (or whirling's bigotry) have to do with the subject of the thread?  I can't believe I have to keep asking that.
 
The subject:
"Expansion of Masjid Al Haram in Mecca"
 
(reply)Originally posted by whirlingEcstasy

Spiritual marketing and money shared between the corrupt royal princes and the jews and christians as usual.
 
I replied, "As usual?"  How can us kufr/dhimmi be blamed for the hotel and restaurant situation in Mecca?
 
Hama wrote, "First and foremost, whether one dislikes or likes the Saudis shouldn't come into this.  This action should be judged purely on Islamic lines, not who is doing it."  So I guess the Saudis are off the hook, leaving us non-muslims to take the blame....."as usual."

You vaguely wrote, "i think whirling finds Hilton and other non-Muslim corporations as not the cause for trouble in Mecca but he finds them sacrilegious in a way that they bring in the secular culture and way of life in to the sacred land....I mean I don't think the Buddhists or the Hindus would like a KFC or a McDonalds outside their sacred temples and lands."
 
But when pressed, you confess a different tune, railing against a "Judea-Christian alliance" that is behind an occupation of Iraq, and the "corrosion of infinite cultures because of the neocon and evangelical Christian agenda..."
 
Which again leads to the question, when some muslims going to quit blaming a "Judeau-Christian alliance" for all that troubles them, including the type of hotels and retaurants in Mecca?
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 23 July 2008 at 12:10am
Originally posted by Islamaholic

I really don't see what the big fuss is about.  They need to accomodate the number of pilgrims hence they expand and create accomodation for them.  They could restrict the amount of people they allow each year, but ask the people who made all preparations for their pilgrimage and then were refused a visa.
 
Yes, unfortunately its beginning to look like Dubai outside the haram, but the authorities don't have a choice really.  They create hotels right outside of the haram because of the expectations of the pilgrims.   Pilgrims want their hotels as close as possible to the haram.  They don't like walking long distances for their prayers because it gets very busy.
 
 
True
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote maghi85 Replybullet Posted: 23 July 2008 at 12:10am
when did the world ever address the Judea-Christian alliance problem in the first place that we should stop trying to address it?

why is it reasonable for Tibetans to preserve their culture and sanctity while blameworthy and intolerant for the Muslims to preserve theirs?
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote maghi85 Replybullet Posted: 23 July 2008 at 12:21am
Who were more anti-Western: the Taliban, or the Buddhas of Bamiyan? - TJ Winters
"True religion invites us to become better people. False religion tells us that this has already occurred" - T.J. Winters
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LtTony  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote LtTony Replybullet Posted: 23 July 2008 at 12:22am
 
The Taliban.
 
Again, what does that have to do with the mecca conversation that I thought was so interesting?
"“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” Osama Bin Laden
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