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msyaz  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote msyaz Replybullet Topic: Regarding Surah At-Tawbah...
    Posted: 29 October 2008 at 7:58am
A non-muslim friend of mine asked me about surah At-Tawbah and he said that it promotes violence.  How do I explain to him briefly so that he understand that the surah is not so?
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ishammad  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ishammad Replybullet Posted: 29 October 2008 at 8:25am
you may tell him that it is the US  who have killed 100s of  thousands of the Iraqi people and destroyed their country. it is US + UK + others in the NATO  who have killed many thousands of Afghani civilians, and it is Israelis who are killing the Palestinians since many decades and taking their land part after part and causing the ingured people to bleed in the street till their last breath. yet we are the ones who are accused and pointed st, the ones found guilty and need to convince everyone otherwise.

this is because the criminal is always arrogant and driven by pride, thinking of hemself as noble with a noble cause

expecting the persecuted to convince him that he does not deserve all this persecution from

didn't you read and consider the very words Pharaoh said to Moses

"Did you come to do mischeif on earth O Moses"
"aren't you the criminal who did such and such o Moses"
"O Haman, build some structure for me, may be i could see Mose's God, and I think he is but a liar"





Edited by ishammad - 29 October 2008 at 8:42am
Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182
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Aviatrix  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Aviatrix Replybullet Posted: 29 October 2008 at 8:56am
Actually, I would advise against ishammad's tactic of refusing to answer the actual question and shifting the topic and blame to just bashing the west.
 
The US killing Iraqis and Afghanis, or Israel killing Palestinians really has nothing to do with at-Tawba.
 
 
I think the best way to answer your friend's question, msyaz, is to ask the person to read the whole chapter, first of all. It happens to be a surah which the enemies of Islam like to quote from piecemeal, and out of context, to promote their agenda.
 
But when a Muslim reads it, he would see all the qualifiers, restrictions, and limitations.
 
It also must be understood that these verses were revealed at a specific stage in the history of Islam. Muslims were initially persecuted in Mecca, and at that time they were not allowed, at all, to use violence to support their cause, even while they were being tortured and killed. Strictly not allowed.
 
They suffered that for over a decade and eventually fled the city. After that, a state was established where Muslims were not under the rule of non-Muslims, and when the battles came they were no longer prevented from fighting, but they were permitted to fight in their defense, against their attackers.
 
And as the attacks on the new Muslim state continued, Muslims were eventually actually commanded to fight. These verses are in Surah At-Tawba. So it becomes possible for someone today to read this chapter and pull verses out of their context and say that it promotes violence.
 
But I note specifically that it is pulling them out of context to do that. Firstly pulling out of their historical context, when Muslims were engaged in battles with the very same people who had persecuted and driven them from their homes. Also, the verses are pulled out of their literal context when the people they are commanded to fight are quite specifically noted as the ones who persecuted and drove them from their homes.
 
Fight, it says. But fight who? I pick up a translation and it says "polytheists." Does it mean all "polytheists?" If you read the passage you'll notice that it says not to fight those who were in a treaty with the Muslims, not to fight those who repented and embraced Islam, not to fight those who sought protection amongst the Muslims. It's talking about a specific group of people who had transgressed against the Muslims in a specific way, saying that the Muslims had the obligation to fight them for that.
 
But if you read this considering the state of the Muslims at the time, if you read it with all the exceptions, limitations, restrictions on Muslims in fighting, if you read it understanding the rules of war for Muslims (no poisoning wells, no cutting trees, no killing non-combatants) then I think the only conclusion to arrive at is not that violence is a solution, but rather that when Muslims had go to war, Surat at-Tawba says why, and how.
 
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stan  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote stan Replybullet Posted: 29 October 2008 at 11:40pm
Originally posted by msyaz

A non-muslim friend of mine asked me about surah At-Tawbah and he said that it promotes violence.  How do I explain to him briefly so that he understand that the surah is not so?



Surah Al-Taubah is THE favourite surah of Islamic critics and certain verses especially verses 9:5 also known as verses of sword is frequently used to prove tht islam promote voilance.


Firstly before addressing critism we shld know the background of the surah and the reason why this surah was revelead. Pls check the following links.

Surah 9. Repentance


Also

An Analysis of Al-Taubah 9: 1 - 28



Now common polemics attack on this surah, Firstly they like to Quote Verses  9:5 Out of context and try to prove tht islam tells to kill all un belivers. Click on Link for explanation.


"Fight the pagans wherever you see them..." (9:5)

 

Secondly they try to prove tht Verses 9:5 abrogates all the peacefull verses in Quran , neglecting the concept of naksh and taksheesh. (Pls click on link below for explanation.)

Abrogated?


Thridly they claim tht Quran oders every one to fight with unbelivers.


"Fight those who believe not in God..." (9:29)


Hope this will help u refute the claims of ur non muslim friend.
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ishammad  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ishammad Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2008 at 3:17am

Sister Aviatrix,

I do agree with you in that my reply is not a direct answer to the question raised, but I am not bashing the west or have a problem with the west. I just have problem with the oppressors or transgressors in the west (and the east) even if the criminals among them claimed that they have a noble cause or described themselves as freedom defenders. This is not going to fool me. By the Grace of God I am not a victim of your media. Nor I am a person who only start complaining about the leaders I elected when the price of a product becomes little higher, regardless whether the bombs who threw on the heads of others are equivalent to 10 or 20 Nagasaki bombs.

Sometimes you may find that my answers are frank and emotional, this is simply because the Jews who came from the US, Poland and other places, took my land which my father inherited from his forefather from many generations, and gave it to the settlers. And because you Americans have really killed and caused suffering for many people. And used the VITO about 30 times in order to prevent the world from even saying a word blaming the hostile among the Jews.

And after that we are asked to explain why to Qur'an is prompting the Muslim to stand against the transgressor and warning them from failing to do so.

Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182
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waheed1  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote waheed1 Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2008 at 9:16am
Tell your Non-Muslim friend to read the entire Soorah in its entirety! Reading it will show that the references to war are really limited, and always in a coherent context.

Perhaps give your friend some literature on Islam, published by Muslims!

Here's a couple of pamphlets that may be of assistance in that regard

The timeless religion
http://islaminviewforum.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=537

An introduction to the Qur'an
http://islaminviewforum.com/index.php?showtopic=104

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Aviatrix  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Aviatrix Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2008 at 10:56am
Originally posted by ishammad

Sister Aviatrix,

I do agree with you in that my reply is not a direct answer to the question raised, but I am not bashing the west or have a problem with the west. I just have problem with the oppressors or transgressors in the west (and the east) even if the criminals among them claimed that they have a noble cause or described themselves as freedom defenders. This is not going to fool me. By the Grace of God I am not a victim of your media. Nor I am a person who only start complaining about the leaders I elected when the price of a product becomes little higher, regardless whether the bombs who threw on the heads of others are equivalent to 10 or 20 Nagasaki bombs.

Sometimes you may find that my answers are frank and emotional, this is simply because the Jews who came from the US, Poland and other places, took my land which my father inherited from his forefather from many generations, and gave it to the settlers. And because you Americans have really killed and caused suffering for many people. And used the VITO about 30 times in order to prevent the world from even saying a word blaming the hostile among the Jews.

And after that we are asked to explain why to Qur'an is prompting the Muslim to stand against the transgressor and warning them from failing to do so.

 
Responses like these are not likely to win people to your way of thinking.
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