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The_truth  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_truth Replybullet Topic: 101 Clear Contradictions of the Bible
    Posted: 22 December 2008 at 9:38pm

 

  Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

(a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)

(b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)

  In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

(a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

(b) One million, one hundred thousand (IChronicles 21:5)

  How many fighting men were found in Judah?

(a)  Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

(b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

  God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

(a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)

(b) Three (I Chronicles 21:12)

  How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

(a)  Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)

(b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

  How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?

(a) Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)

(b)  Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)

  How long did he rule over Jerusalem?

(a) Three months (2 Kings 24:8)

(b) Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)

  The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?

(a)  Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)

(b)  Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)

  When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?

(a) After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)

(b)  Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)

  How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?

(a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)

(b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)

  When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?

(a)  One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)

(b) Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)

   How many stalls for horses did Solomon have?

(a) Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26)

(b)  Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25)

  In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha,   King of Israel die?

(a) Twenty-sixth year  (I Kings 15:33 - 16:8)

(b) Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1)

  How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple?

(a) Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2)

(b) Three thousand three hundred (I Kings 5:16)

  Solomon built a facility containing how many baths?

(a) Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26)

(b) Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5)

Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab? 

(a)  Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6)

(b) Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11)

  How many were the children of Zattu?

(a) Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:8)

(b) Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13)

  How many were the children of Azgad?

(a) One thousand two hundred and twenty-two (Ezra 2:12)

(b) Two thousand three hundred and twenty-two (Nehemiah 7:17)

  How many were the children of Adin?

(a) Four hundred and fifty-four (Ezra 2:15)

(b) Six hundred and fifty-five (Nehemiah 7:20)

  How many were the children of Hashum?

(a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:19)

(b) Three hundred and twenty-eight (Nehemiah 7:22)

  How many were the children of Bethel and Ai?

(a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:28)

(b) One hundred and twenty-three (Nehemiah 7:32)

  Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows:

(a) 29,818 (Ezra)

(b) 31,089 (Nehemiah)

  How many singers accompanied the assembly?

(a)  Two hundred (Ezra 2:65)

(b) Two hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:67)

  What was the name of King Abijah’s mother?

(a) Michaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah (2 Chronicles 13:2)

(b) Maachah, daughter of Absalom (2 Chronicles 11:20) But Absalom had only one daughter whose name was Tamar (2 Samuel 14:27)

  Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem?

(a) Yes (Joshua 10:23, 40)

(b)  No (Joshua 15:63)

  Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary?

(a) Jacob (Matthew 1:16)

(b) Hell (Luke 3:23)

  Jesus descended from which son of David?

(a) Solomon (Matthew 1:6)

(b) Nathan(Luke3:31)

  Who was the father of Shealtiel?

(a) Jechoniah (Matthew 1:12)

(b) Neri’ (Luke 3:27)

  Which son of Zerubbabel was an ancestor of Jesus Christ?

(a) Abiud (Matthew 1: 13)

(b) Rhesa (Luke 3:27) But the seven sons of Zerubbabel are as follows: i.Meshullam, ii. Hananiah, iii. Hashubah, iv. Ohel, v.Berechiah, vi. Hasadiah, viii. Jushabhesed (I Chronicles 3:19, 20). The names Abiud and Rhesa do not fit in anyway.

  Who was the father of Uzziah?

(a)   Joram (Matthew 1:8)

(b)  Amaziah (2 Chronicles 26:1)

  Who as the father of Jechoniah?

(a)   Josiah (Matthew 1:11)

(b) Jeholakim (I Chronicles 3:16)

  How many generations were there from the Babylonian exile until Christ?

(a) Matthew says fourteen (Matthew 1:17)

(b)  But a careful count of the generations reveals only thirteen (see Matthew 1: 12-16)

  Who was the father of Shelah?

(a)  Cainan (Luke 3:35-36)

(b)  Arphaxad (Genesis II: 12)

  Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come?

(a)  Yes (Matthew II: 14, 17:10-13)

(b)  No(John 1:19-21)

  Would Jesus inherit David’s throne?

(a) Yes. So said the angel (Luke 1:32)

(b) No, since he is a descendant of Jehoiakim (see Matthew 1: I 1, I Chronicles 3:16). And Jehoiakim was cursed by God so that none of his descendants can sit upon David’s throne (Jeremiah 36:30)

  Jesus rode into Jerusalem on how many animals?

(a)  One - a colt (Mark 11:7; cf Luke 19:3 5). “And they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their garments on it; and he sat upon it.”

(b)  Two - a colt and an ass (Matthew 21:7). “They brought the ass and the colt and put their garments on them and he sat thereon.”

  How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ?

(a)  By a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17)

(b)  His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41)

  Where did Jesus first meet Simon Peter and Andrew?

(a) By the sea of Galilee (Matthew 4:18-22)

(b)  On the banks of river Jordan (John 1:42). After that, Jesus decided to go to Galilee (John 1:43)

  When Jesus met Jairus was Jairus’ daughter already dead?

(a)  Yes. Matthew 9:18 quotes him as saying, “My daughter has just died.”

(b)  No. Mark 5:23 quotes him as saying, “My little daughter is at the point of death.”

  Did Jesus allow his disciples to keep a staff on their journey?

(a)  Yes(Mark6:8)

(b)  No (Matthew 10:9; Luke 9:3)

  Did Herod think that Jesus was John the Baptist?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 14:2; Mark 6:16)

(b)  No (Luke 9:9)

  Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus before his baptism?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 3:13-14)

(b)  No (John 1:32,33)

  Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus after his baptism?

(a)   Yes (John 1:32, 33)

(b)  No (Matthew 11:2)

  According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness?

(a)   “If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true” (John 5:3 1)

(b)  “Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true” (John 8:14)

  When Jesus entered Jerusalem did he cleanse the temple that same day?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 21:12)

(b)  No. He went into the temple and looked around, but since it was very late he did nothing. Instead, he went to Bethany to spend the night and returned the next morning to cleanse the temple (Mark I 1:1- 17).

  The Gospels say that Jesus cursed a fig tree. Did the tree wither at once?

(a)   Yes. (Matthew 21:19)

(b)    No. It withered overnight (Mark II: 20)

  Did Judas kiss Jesus?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 26:48-50)

(b)  No. Judas could not get close enough to Jesus to kiss him (John 18:3-12)

  What did Jesus say about Peter’s denial?

(a)   “The cock will not crow till you have denied me three times” (John 13:38).

(b)  “Before the cock crows twice you will deny me three times” (Mark 14:30) . When the cock crowed once, the three denials were not yet complete (see Mark 14:72). Therefore prediction (a) failed.

  Did Jesus bear his own cross?

(a)   Yes (John 19:17)

(b)  No (Matthew 27:31-32)

  Did Jesus die before the curtain of the temple was torn?

(a)   Yes(Matthew27:50-5 1;MarklS:37-38)

(b)  No. After the curtain was torn, then Jesus crying with a loud voice, said, “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last (Luke 23:45-46)

  Did Jesus say anything secretly?

(a)   No. “I have said nothing secretly” (John 18:20)

(b)  Yes. “He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything” (Mark 4:34). The disciples asked him “Why do you speak to them in parables?” He said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given” (Matthew 13: 1 0-11)

  Where was Jesus at the sixth hour on the day of the crucifixion?

(a)   On the cross (Mark 15:23)

(b)  In Pilate’s court (John 19:14)

  The gospels say that two thieves were crucified along with Jesus. Did both thieves mock Jesus?

(a)   Yes (Mark 15:32)

(b) No. One of them mocked Jesus, the other defended Jesus (Luke 23:43)

  Did Jesus ascend to Paradise the same day of the crucifixion?

(a)   Yes. He said to the thief who defended him, “Today you will be with me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43)

(b)  No. He said to Mary Magdelene two days later, “I have not yet ascended to the Father” (John 20:17)

  When Paul was on the road to Damascus he saw a light and heard a voice. Did those who were with him hear the voice?

(a)  Yes(Acts9:7)

(b)  No(Acts22:9)

  When Paul saw the light he fell to the ground. Did his traveling companions also fall to the ground?

(a)  Yes (Acts 26:14)

(b) No (Acts 9:7)

  Did the voice spell out on the spot what Paul’s duties were to be?

(a)  Yes (Acts 26:16-18)

(b)  No. The voice commanded Paul to go into the city of Damascus and there he will be told what he must do. (Acts9:7;22: 10)

  When the Israelites dwelt in ****tin they committed adultery with the daughters of Moab. God struck them with a plague. How many people died in that plague?

(a)  Twenty-four thousand (Numbers 25:1 and 9)

(b)  Twenty-three thousand (I Corinthians 10:8)

  How many members of the house of Jacob came to Egypt?

(a)  Seventy souls (Genesis 4&27)

(b)  Seventy-five souls (Acts 7:14)

  What did Judas do with the blood money he received for betraying Jesus?

(a)  He bought a field (Acts 1: 18)

(b)  He threw all of it into the temple and went away. The priests could not put the blood money into the temple treasury, so they used it to buy a field to bury strangers (Matthew 27:5)

  How did Judas die?

(a)  After he threw the money into the temple he went away and hanged himself (Matthew 27:5)

(b)  After he bought the field with the price of his evil deed he fell headlong and burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out (Acts 1:18)

  Why is the field called “Field of Blood”?

(a)  Because the priests bought it with the blood money (Matthew 27:8)

(b)  Because of the bloody death of Judas therein (Acts 1:19)

  Who is a ransom for whom?

(a)  “The Son of Man came...to give his life as a ransom for many” (Mark 10:45). “Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all... “(I Timothy 2:5-6)

(b)  “The wicked is a ransom for the righteous, and the faithless for the upright” (Proverbs 21:18)

  Is the law of Moses useful?

(a)  Yes. “All scripture is... profitable...” (2 Timothy 3:16)

(b)  No. “. . . A former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness... “(Hebrews 7:18)

  What was the exact wording on the cross?

(a)  “This is Jesus the King of the Jews” (Matthew 27:37)

(b)   “The King of the Jews” (Mark 15:26)

(c)   “This is the King of the Jews” (Luke 23:38)

(d)   “Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews” (John 19:19)

  Did Herod want to kill John the Baptist?

(a)  Yes (Matthew 14:5)

(b)  No. It was Herodias, the wife of Herod who wanted to kill him. But Herod knew that he was a righteous man and kept him safe (Mark 6:20)

  Who was the tenth disciple of Jesus in the list of twelve?

(a)  Thaddaeus (Matthew 10: 1-4; Mark 3:13 -19)

(b)  Judas son of James is the corresponding name in Luke’s gospel (Luke 6:12-16)

  Jesus saw a man sitat the tax collector’s office and called him to be his disciple. What was his name?

(a)  Matthew (Matthew 9:9)

(b)  Levi (Mark 2:14; Luke 5:27)

  Was Jesus crucified on the daytime before the Passover meal or the daytime after?

(a)  After (Mark 14:12-17)

(b)  Before. Before the feast of the Passover (John 1) Judas went out at night (John 13:30). The other disciples thought he was going out to buy supplies to prepare for the Passover meal (John 13:29). When Jesus was arrested, the Jews did not enter Pilate’s judgment hail because they wanted to stay clean to eat the Passover (John 18:28). When the judgment was pronounced against Jesus, it was about the sixth hour on the day of Preparation for the Passover (John 19:14)

  Did Jesus pray to The Father to prevent the crucifixion?

(a)  Yes. (Matthew 26:39; Mark 14:36; Luke 22:42)

(b)  No. (John 12:27)

  In the gospels which say that Jesus prayed to avoid the cross, how many times did ‘he move away from his disciples to pray?

(a)  Three (Matthew 26:36-46 and Mark 14:32-42)

(b)  One. No opening is left for another two times. (Luke 22:39-46)

  Matthew and Mark agree that Jesus went away and prayed three times. What were the words of the second prayer?

(a)  Mark does not give the words but he says that the words were the same as the first prayer (Mark 14:3 9)

(b)  Matthew gives us the words, and we can see that they are not the same as in the first (Matthew 26:42)

  What did the centurion say when Jesus dies?

(a)   “Certainly this man was innocent” (Luke 23:47)

(b)  “Truly this man was the Son of God” (Mark 15:39)

  When Jesus said “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken Me ? ” in what language did he speak?

(a)   Hebrew: the words are “Eloi, Eloi …..“(Matthew 27:46)

(b)  Aramaic: the words are “Eloi, Eloi ….. “(Mark   15:34)

  According to the gospels, what were the last words of Jesus before he died?

(a)   “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!” (Luke 23:46)

(b)  "It is finished" (John 19:30).

  When Jesus entered Capernaum he healed the slave of a centurion. Did the centurion come personally to request Jesus for this?

(a)   Yes (Matthew 8:5)

(b)  No. He sent some elders of the Jews and his friends (Luke 7:3,6)

(a)   Adam was told that if and when he eats the forbidden fruit he would die the same day (Genesis 2:17)

(b)  Adam ate the fruit and went on to live to a ripe old age of 930 years (Genesis 5:5)

 

(a)   God decided that the life-span of humans will be limited to 120 years (Genesis 6:3)

(b)  Many people born after that lived longer than 120. Arpachshad lived 438 years. His son Shelah lived 433 years. His son Eber lived 464 years, etc. (Genesis 11:12-16)

  Apart from Jesus did anyone else ascend to heaven?

(a)   No (John 3:13)

(b)  Yes. “And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven” (2 Kings 2:11)

  Who was high priest when David went into the house of God and ate the consecrated bread?

(a)   Abiathar (Mark 2:26)

(b)  Ahimelech, the father of Abiathar (I Samuel 1:1; 22:20)

  Was Jesus’ body wrapped in spices before burial in accordance with Jewish burial customs?

(a)   Yes and his female disciples witnessed his burial (John 19:39-40)

(b)  No. Jesus was simply wrapped in a linen shroud. Then the women bought and prepared spices “so that they may go and anoint him [Jesus)” (Mark 16: 1)

  When did the women buy the spices?

(a)   After “the Sabbath was past” (Mark 16:1)

(b)  Before the Sabbath. The women “prepared spices and ointments.” Then, “on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment” (Luke 23:55 to 24:1)

  At what time of day did the women visit the tomb?

(a)   “Toward the dawn” (Matthew 28: 1)

(b)  “When the sun had risen” (Mark 16:2)

  What was the purpose for which the women went to the tomb?

(a)   To anoint Jesus’ body with spices (Mark 16: 1; Luke 23:55 to 24: 1)

(b)   To see the tomb. Nothing about spices here (Matthew 28: 1)

(c)  For no specified reason. In this gospel the wrapping with spices had been done before the Sabbath (John 20: 1)

  A large stone was placed at the entrance of the tomb. Where was the stone when the women arrived?

(a)   They saw that the stone was “Rolled back” (Mark 16:4) They found the stone “rolled away from the tomb” (Luke 24:2) They saw that “the stone had been taken away from the tomb” (John 20:1)

(b)  As the women approached, an angel descended from heaven, rolled away the stone, and conversed with the women. Matthew made the women witness the spectacular rolling away of the stone (Matthew 28:1-6)

  Did anyone tell the women what happened to Jesus’ body?

(a)   Yes. “A young man in a white robe” (Mark 16:5). “Two men ... in dazzling apparel” later described as angels (Luke 24:4 and 24:23). An angel - the one who rolled back the stone (Matthew 16:2). In each case the women were told that Jesus had risen from the dead (Matthew 28:7; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:5 footnote)

(b) No. Mary met no one and returned saying, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him” (John 20:2)

  When did Mary Magdelene first meet the resurrected Jesus? And how did she react?

(a)   Mary and the other women met Jesus on their way back from their first and only visit to the tomb. They took hold of his feet and worshipped him (Matthew 28:9)

(b)   On her second visit to the tomb Mary met Jesus just outside the tomb. When she saw Jesus she did not recognize him. She mistook him for the gardener. She still thinks that Jesus’ body is laid to rest somewhere and she demands to know where. But when Jesus said her name she at once recognized him and called him “Teacher.” Jesus said to her, “Do not hold me...” (John 20:11 to 17)

  What was Jesus’ instruction for his disciples?

(a)  “Tell my brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see me” (Matthew 2 8: 10)  

(b)   “Go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God” (John 20:17)

  When did the disciples return to Galilee?

(a)   Immediately, because when they saw Jesus in Galilee “some doubted” (Matthew 28:17). This period of uncertainty should not persist

(b)   After at least 40 days. That evening the disciples were still in Jerusalem (Luke 24:3 3). Jesus appeared to them there and told them, stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high” (Luke 24:49). He was appearing to them “during forty days” (Acts 1:3), and “charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise ... “(Acts 1:4)

  To whom did the Midianites sell Joseph?

(a)   “To the Ishmaelites” (Genesis 37:28)

(b)   “To Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh” (Genesis 37:36)

  Who brought Joseph to Egypt?

(a)   The Ishmaelites bought Joseph and then “took Joseph to Egypt” (Genesis 37:28)

(b)   “The Midianites had sold him in Egypt” (Genesis 37:36)

(c)   Joseph said to his brothers “I am your brother, Joseph, whom you sold into Egypt” (Genesis 45:4)

  Does God change his mind?

(a)   Yes. “The word of the Lord came to Samuel: “I repent that I have made Saul King...” (I Samuel 15:10 to 11)

(b)   No. God “will not lie or repent; for he is not a man, that he should repent” (I Samuel 15:29)

(c)   Yes. “And the Lord repented that he had made Saul King over Israel” (I Samuel 15:35). Notice that the above three quotes are all from the same chapter of the same book! In addition, the Bible shows that God repented on several other occasions:

i. “The Lord was sorry that he made man” (Genesis 6:6)

“I am sorry that I have made them” (Genesis 6:7)

ii. “And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do to his people” (Exodus 32:14).

iii. (Lots of other such references).

  The Bible says that for each miracle Moses and Aaron demonstrated the magicians did the same by their secret arts. Then comes the following feat:

(a)   Moses and Aaron converted all the available water into blood (Exodus 7:20-21)

(b)   The magicians did the same (Exodus 7:22). This is impossible, since there would have been no water left to convert into blood.

  Who killed Goliath?

(a)   David (I Samuel 17:23, 50)

(b)   Elhanan (2 Samuel 21:19)

  Who killed Saul?

(a)  “Saul took his own sword and fell upon it.... Thus Saul died... (I Samuel 31:4-6)

(b)   An Amalekite slew him (2 Samuel 1:1- 16)

  Does every man sin?

(a)   Yes. “There is no man who does not sin” (I Kings 8:46; see also 2 Chronicles 6:36; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; and I John 1:810)

(b)   No. True Christians cannot possibly sin, because they are the children of God. “Every one who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God.. (I John 5:1). “We should be called children of God; and so we are” (I John 3: 1). “He who loves is born of God” (I John 4:7). “No one born of God commits sin; for God’s nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God” (I John 3:9). But, then again, Yes! “If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (I John 1:8)

 Who will bear whose burden?

(a)   “Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ” (Galatians 6:2)

(b)   “Each man will have to bear his own load” (Galatians 6:5)

  How many disciples did Jesus appear to after his resurrection?

(a)   Twelve (I Corinthians 15:5)

(b)   Eleven (Matthew 27:3-5 and Acts 1:9-26, see also Matthew 28:16; Mark 16:14 footnote; Luke 24:9; Luke 24:3 3)

  Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?

(a)   After his baptism, “the spirit immediately drove him out into the wilderness. And he was in the wilderness forty days ... (Mark 1:12-13)

(b)   Next day after the baptism, Jesus selected two disciples. Second day: Jesus went to Galilee - two more disciples. Third day: Jesus was at a wedding feast in Cana in Galilee (see John 1:35; 1:43; 2:1-11)

  Was baby Jesus’ life threatened in Jerusalem?

(a)   Yes, so Joseph fled with him to Egypt and stayed there until Herod died (Matthew 2:13 23)

(b)   No. The family fled nowhere. They calmly presented the child at the Jerusalem temple according to the Jewish customs and returned to Galilee (Luke 2:21-40)

  When Jesus walked on water how did the disciples respond?

(a)   They worshipped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God” (Matthew 14:33)

(b)   “They were utterly astounded, for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened” (Mark 6:51-52)

[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 23 December 2008 at 7:56am

 

 Imaginative cut and paste. I wonder if i could find any similar sites showing contradictions in the Quran....

 Ohh my goodness  look there's plenty.. imagine that... and such a small book too!!!

   
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Janet Waters  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Janet Waters Replybullet Posted: 23 December 2008 at 1:48pm
Transfered from the thread "Did Cain marry his sister?"

Originally posted by keithnurse



So the story of Adam and Eve was written down by men who saw what happened in visions.  This is supposed to be compelling evidence that what Genesis said is an accurate account of what happened?  Doesn't sound like solid evidence to me at all.


Some prophets are given the "Gift of God" in order to also be a Seer and Revelator (translate unknown languages and know the beginning from the end).


Yes...originally the stories were received by visions as well as the retelling of earlier accounts written by other prophets (whether it was written in the same language or not).  However, most prophets (A SEER-for interpretations) had scribes that recorded these things down for them.  Whether the account of Genesis is the record that the scribe (or the prophet himself) wrote down or not....we don't know.  That record may be preserved with the Lord and the Genesis account may not have originated with a written account.  It may even be the oral traditions that were handed down from generation to generation of those who had access to those accounts at one time and then were written down later.  Obviously, every transaction would increase the possibility of errors (additions/subtractions/misinterpretations) in those accounts.

We can see from Moses' account (Genesis) that the wording he used about the creation and Adam and Eve story was almost identical to the wording in Abraham's account.  There are some doctrinal differences which must have come from the unintentional errors of the scribes (over time and through translations) as well as the intentional deletions of pertinent information by conspiring men.

Another thing to consider---the account of Genesis was not written in our language.  So someone had to translate it.  Scribes were not authorized to have carte blanch to the scriptures--they only had authority to be a human xerox machine--each making copies over the centuries.  They were not to add or subtract from the words of a prophet.  They were not to summarize, condense, or to translate from one language to another.  Only a prophet [SEER]......could translate one prophet's writings from one language to another....and this was done by the gift and power of God.  [Ancient translators: Urim & Thummim that the High Priest had possession of].

However, many men were "inspired" in their desire to translate the scriptures into languages to benefit all men.  But that doesn't mean that they had the ability to provide the perfect record.  In order to come up with a complete and perfect translation of ancient records....they have to be translated by the gift and power of God.  [Have the use of ancient interpreters that are designed for that purpose].  Many Seers were given visions through these interpreters too.

This is the difference between a prophet and a Seer.  Not all prophets are Seers.  But to be a Seer a man must be a prophet first.  A Seer is a prophet who has been given the interpreters.  He has been given the authority by God to accomplish translations (through the Melchizedek Priesthood).  No man can look into the interpreters and live without having the authority of God to do so.

The books within the Bible may at one time have been translated by the gift and power of God....but it has not come down to us in English....through this process.  Therefore there is going to be errors in our current addition of the Bible.  The more versions of the Bible being produced--- the greater errors in translations will continue to increase currently with us too.  Unless...................a prophet is called and given the gift and power of God [Urim & Thummim] to restore the Bible back to its pristine condition.


Edited by Janet Waters - 23 December 2008 at 1:53pm
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Sagefrakrobatik  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Sagefrakrobatik Replybullet Posted: 23 December 2008 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by Damo808

 

 Imaginative cut and paste. I wonder if i could find any similar sites showing contradictions in the Quran....

 Ohh my goodness  look there's plenty.. imagine that... and such a small book too!!!

   
 
Thats exactly what I thought. I doubt this guy read the bible and went through it systematically looking for contradictions. It's so easy finding a list. the first time i saw a list of "contradictions" from the bible was from Dan Barker in his booking Loosing Faith; from Preacher to Atheist. To me it just shows you cant take everything literally. Besides are Muslims suppose to hold the "Injeel" in high esteem.
Why eat vegetarians when you could eat meat eaters. They have more protein.
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The_truth  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_truth Replybullet Posted: 24 December 2008 at 6:42am

[/QUOTE]

 
Thats exactly what I thought. I doubt this guy read the bible and went through it systematically looking for contradictions. It's so easy finding a list. the first time i saw a list of "contradictions" from the bible was from Dan Barker in his booking Loosing Faith; from Preacher to Atheist. To me it just shows you cant take everything literally. Besides are Muslims suppose to hold the "Injeel" in high esteem.
[/QUOTE]
 
Firstly these contradictions were listed by Christians themselves so it's not a bias posting! Secondly If linguists and Christian scholars themselves acknowlegde that the Bible is full of numerous additions, deletions,inconsistencies and contradictions then who are to to deny them? Thirdly of course we believe in the Injeel but we can't refer to it anymore because of the reasons i've just given you!
 
Does it never bother you that Jesus Himself told us to worship God.. yet the Church worships Him?

You see, when you do take out the "Jesus is God" part of the Bible.. people are willing to listen.. and not just Muslims.. Christians generally have been divided on this issue of whether Jesus is God. There's an Alpha course which had a lovely old man on it.. he was as strong a Christian as you would find in the church.. but he could not get his mind around Jesus is God.. yes to the crucifixion, but the concept of Jesus is God was something he couldn't accept

Can you be a Christian if you don't believe Jesus is God?
[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)
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The_truth  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_truth Replybullet Posted: 24 December 2008 at 6:45am
The Church has raised the worship of Jesus above the worship of God and Jesus Himself never did this.
 
In 2 Chronicles 7:14 God Himself declares

"If my people, who are called by my Name, humble themselves and pray and turn from their wicked ways and seek my face, THEN will I hear from heaven, FORGIVE THEIR SIN and heal their land.

Jesus Himself when asked how to gain eternal life..did not tell the rich young man to believe that He Jesus was going to die on the cross for the sins of the world.. He simply told Him to go put His life right by obeying the commandments, especially the one giving him the most trouble.. His love of money and his possessions above all things.
Jesus said in John 17 "21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

If we take Jesus' words here to mean the same as in John 10 and we have to as the same words are used.. we are left with no alternative than to have to agree that Jesus is asking for the same one ness that exists between Him and God to exist between believers and God.

So are you now saying you are part of the God head? Clearly you are not..but that is the logical conclusion if you take the "one ness verses" at face value.

Notice also in John 17 Jesus says this
"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom (You have sent.

Clearly Jesus does not identify Himself as being ONE with the only true God. Surely this is one place we would expect to see the Trinity doctrine discussed in detail by Him.

He says instead this..

4"I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do.



7"Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You;
8for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me.

No Muslim would suggest that God did not send Jesus .. and that God didnot give Jesus the words to be given to mankind.
[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)
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Ganadores500  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Ganadores500 Replybullet Posted: 24 December 2008 at 4:49pm
Imaginative cut and paste. I wonder if i could find any similar sites showing contradictions in the Quran....

 Ohh my goodness  look there's plenty.. imagine that... and such a small book too!!!

Right! It is misinterpretation of the scriptures. The gospels for example were written from memoria and it can not have every single accurate detail in all accounts...
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Ganadores500  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Ganadores500 Replybullet Posted: 24 December 2008 at 5:13pm
"If my people, who are called by my Name, humble themselves and pray and turn from their wicked ways and seek my face, THEN will I hear from heaven, FORGIVE THEIR SIN and heal their land.

This refers to Isreal turing away from their sins and worshipping God with a right heart in general, not the trinity...
 
So are you now saying you are part of the God head? Clearly you are not..but that is the logical conclusion if you take the "one ness verses" at face value.

Notice also in John 17 Jesus says this
"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom (You have sent.

Jesus speaks to his believers concerning that they could be unified and know the true God. This is not reference to the disciples being gods themselves apart of the God Head. Read carefully, the context could throw a person off big time...

 

Clearly Jesus does not identify Himself as being ONE with the only true God. Surely this is one place we would expect to see the Trinity doctrine discussed in detail by Him.

He says instead this..

4"I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do.

That's true God is interconected. (see Isaiah 48:16-17,Proverbs 30:4, 1 Timothy 3:16, Genesis 1:26, Isaiah 7:14, John 1:1-3, Isaiah 9:6,Mark 14:61-62, John 14:9,Psalsm 110:1, Phillipians 2:6,Colosian 2:9 Hebrews 1:1-3 and John 5:18(don't read into it)... these passages are too numerous to place down...

Jesus Himself when asked how to gain eternal life..did not tell the rich young man to believe that He Jesus was going to die on the cross for the sins of the world.. He simply told Him to go put His life right by obeying the commandments, especially the one giving him the most trouble.. His love of money and his possessions above all things.
Jesus said in John 17 "21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. If we take Jesus' words here to mean the same as in John 10 and we have to as the same words are used.. we are left with no alternative than to have to agree that Jesus is asking for the same one ness that exists between Him and God to exist between believers and God.

John 17 refers to the body of believers to be one and not broken down as a church, not being assembled w/ God in the God head.




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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 24 December 2008 at 5:18pm
Firstly these contradictions were listed by Christians themselves so it's not a bias posting! Secondly If linguists and Christian scholars themselves acknowlegde that the Bible is full of numerous additions, deletions,inconsistencies and contradictions then who are to to deny them?
 
 Are you saying the Bible we have today has been drastically changed so much so that we Christians are now drawing from a source so removed from the original that we are believing in something completely different from that intended ?  If so, do you believe that the original teachings did not refer to Christ as God, or that the earliest Christians did not revere Christ as God, or God's Son ?
 I've heard it said many times that the Quran has never been changed, but this claim itself is open to question , even Islamic contemprories of the past have shed light on ommitted passages from the original Quran, such as the so called Satanic verses. There's a difference between what is a contradiction and what is clear attempt to corrupt scripture. If actual corruption was possible in scripture, then we probably wouldn't have learned of Peter denying Jesus three times, the offences of King David, the humiliation of the Hebrews by the Persians... I mean, why leave in the shameful episodes of the past if simple editing jobs were so easy and convenient, especially when  these shameful moments are not recorded eslewhere ?
 
Does it never bother you that Jesus Himself told us to worship God.. yet the Church worships Him?
 
 Does it ever occur to you that Christians get a little tired of hearing non -Christians attempt to prove what they believe in is wrong by using choice quotes in scripture, without context. 
 
You see, when you do take out the "Jesus is God" part of the Bible.. people are willing to listen.. and not just Muslims..
 
 I'm sure there may be some groups perhaps the Unitarians who do reflect on such a theology, so i guess some do listen to that as a theory. However it seems most people interested in the Bible are convinced that the Jesus of the Bible is infact God no-one's really caring who is or isn't listening .
 
 Christians generally have been divided on this issue of whether Jesus is God.
 
 They are... hmm, you have figures which show the disparity ? If i'm not mistaken the mainstream of Christianty, Catholic and most protestant denominations hold Jesus as God. What denominations don't ? Could you enlighten me ?
 
 
There's an Alpha course which had a lovely old man on it.. he was as strong a Christian as you would find in the church.. but he could not get his mind around Jesus is God.. yes to the crucifixion, but the concept of Jesus is God was something he couldn't accept

Can you be a Christian if you don't believe Jesus is God?
 
 Personaly i don't believe you can. But the reality is, the term Christian has since the reformation at least, become synonimous with  just about anyone who has the remotest abstract beliefs in the identity of Jesus. You have the ultra liberal type who view Jesus as no more than someone who spread nothing more than a feel good hippy vibe of peace and love and that nothing is sinful in regards to sexual orientation, free love etc.. then the pic'n'mix ones who have the Jesus they want in their own mind. There are some 30,000 Christian denominations out there which have over time become factionalised and splintered beyond number, they all claim to hold truth, but can they seriously all be Christian ?


Edited by Damo808 - 24 December 2008 at 5:24pm
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_truth Replybullet Posted: 24 December 2008 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by Damo808


Can you be a Christian if you don't believe Jesus is God?
 
 Personaly i don't believe you can. But the reality is, the term Christian has since the reformation at least, become synonimous with  just about anyone who has the remotest abstract beliefs in the identity of Jesus. You have the ultra liberal type who view Jesus as no more than someone who spread nothing more than a feel good hippy vibe of peace and love and that nothing is sinful in regards to sexual orientation, free love etc.. then the pic'n'mix ones who have the Jesus they want in their own mind. There are some 30,000 Christian denominations out there which have over time become factionalised and splintered beyond number, they all claim to hold truth, but can they seriously all be Christian ?
 
Please answer these questions:
 
Why did God have to kill himself for himself in order to save his own creation from a sin against him?
 
What was the result of David's prayer?.. He was forgiven.. ..he needed only a heart that was truly sorry and went to God for forgiveness!
 
David knew he had sinned and he knew how bad his sin..yet he still recognized that sin offerings were not enough.. what was and remains necessary was the heart attitude towards that sin and the sincere repentance from it.
 
This is what Christians call Holiness ( JC Ryle once wrote..

I ask to be heard today about this question. How stands the account between our souls and God? In this hurrying, bustling world, let us stand still for a few minutes and consider the matter of holiness... It is very well worth considering the question)


Hebrews 12 says
14Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord....

and that is written to Christians..

the call from God in the OT was "Be Holy as I am Holy". Peter re stated this in the NT and the writer to Hebrews says it here

It is not sacrifice that saves you.. it's your heart attitude.. or your intention as we call it in Islam.. and Holiness is just as difficult a mark for the Christian to achieve as it is the Non Christian.. and without it you will not see God.

Hebrews 10 discusses this in detail.. and repeats the phrase that sacrifce was an annual reminder and sacrifice does not bring forgiveness for sin

it ends with these words as a warning to all Christians .. who believe that Jesus' death is enough to save them

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

29How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people."31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

James said "Faith without works is dead" and Jesus said "not everyone who calls me Lord will enter the kingdom".

So there is a whole lot more to this than just accepting that Jesus's death was the final atonement for man's sins.
 
In 2 Chronicles 7:14 God Himself declares

"If my people, who are called by my Name, humble themselves and pray and turn from their wicked ways and seek my face, THEN will I hear from heaven, FORGIVE THEIR SIN and heal their land.

Jesus Himself when asked how to gain eternal life..did not tell the rich young man to believe that He Jesus was going to die on the cross for the sins of the world.. He simply told Him to go put His life right by obeying the commandments, especially the one giving him the most trouble.. His love of money and his possessions above all things.
God is God Damo.. anything less than His ability to forgive sins and deal with sins makes Him less than Almighty. Why did He need sacrifice..and specially the sacrifice of Jesus to "become" sin.. in order to deal with man's sin?
 
Please don't give the pat answers about justification and atonement.. concentrate on WHO God is.. and ask yourself WHY!
 
 


Edited by The_truth - 24 December 2008 at 7:15pm
[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 24 December 2008 at 7:40pm
 
 
  You seem to be confusing forgiveness with purification. When David and the rest of the Patriarchs died, they didn't go to heaven as we know it, they were forgiven though still were tainted by sin regardless. But as the Bible would have it , they went instead to the "heart of the earth" (Mat 12:40) a somewhat midway sanctury if you will. Christians believe that Heaven only became opened to the dead after Christ's death on the Cross. One can only enter heaven after purification from the stain of sin.  Sacrifice was prescribed to the Hebrews to make them aware of the concept of sin, it did not however have the power to cleanse the stain of sin.
 


Edited by Damo808 - 24 December 2008 at 7:44pm
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 24 December 2008 at 7:57pm
 Jesus "became sin". The phrasing here illustrates that Jesus put Himself , unblemished.. perfect as a substitute for sin, in order to free people from its burden or rather the inescapable burden it left upon the soul (pre-Crucifixion). I doubt the writter meant to convey that Jesus Himself became actual sin... thats just well... silly especially when taking with the rest of the passage. Unless you can explain the meaning differently ?
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_truth Replybullet Posted: 24 December 2008 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by Damo808

 Jesus "became sin". The phrasing here illustrates that Jesus put Himself , unblemished.. perfect as a substitute for sin, in order to free people from its burden or rather the inescapable burden it left upon the soul (pre-Crucifixion). I doubt the writter meant to convey that Jesus Himself became actual sin... thats just well... silly especially when taking with the rest of the passage. Unless you can explain the meaning differently ?
Pls answer every point properly! thanks
[T]he sun and moon and stars are subservient to His command. Both creation and command belong to Him. Blessed be Allah,
the Lord of all the worlds.
(Qur’an, 7:54)
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 24 December 2008 at 8:45pm
 Well at least illustrate for me, whaich part of my last statement you dis-agree with and we'll start from there, for i can't see why it doen't summerize much all of what you said, in as many words, but just repetative in making the same points .... or at least ask me one at a time which points we can discuss at length . I'm in no way being evasive ?
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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