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Muanua
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Muanua Replybullet Topic: Problem with conversion
    Posted: 15 February 2009 at 8:33pm
This may be the wrong section to post this under, if so forgive me. I am very interested in Islam, I very much believe it to be true and I would like to convert. I have done much research and I know how I even learned how to pray. The only thing that has kept me from converting is that I found that Jesus (pbuh) does not seem to fit the Jewish conception of the messiah. I understand that one must believe Jesus (pbuh) to be the messiah in order to be a Muslim, but I have not been able to find an explanation of the Islamic teaching of his messiaship. So if someone could reconcile this to me I would be most appreciative.
 
Peace


Edited by Muanua - 15 February 2009 at 8:38pm
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Ras Temitope  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Ras Temitope Replybullet Posted: 15 February 2009 at 9:30pm
Cant say for sure, but I think they basically believe Jesus was the Messiah because he is declared as such in the Gospels and in Quran.
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Muanua
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Muanua Replybullet Posted: 15 February 2009 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by Ras Temitope

Cant say for sure, but I think they basically believe Jesus was the Messiah because he is declared as such in the Gospels and in Quran.
 
Yes, I understand that the Holy Quran states that Jesus (pbuh) is the messiah, as does the Bible. However the reason I don't accept this outright is the fact that technically Jesus did not fulfill the Jewish prophecies as to what the messiah would do. What would like is a reason from the Islamic perspective that he was the messiah, or at least to show that the Jewish prophecies are not prophecies about the messiah.
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Ras Temitope  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Ras Temitope Replybullet Posted: 15 February 2009 at 9:45pm
Well it could be said that the greatest proof that Jesus is the Messiah is that the Gospels say that he is and the Quran confirms it. What more evidence does a devout Muslim need?
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Muanua
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Muanua Replybullet Posted: 15 February 2009 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by Ras Temitope

Well it could be said that the greatest proof that Jesus is the Messiah is that the Gospels say that he is and the Quran confirms it. What more evidence does a devout Muslim need?
 
Yes, you make a good argument however as I have said I sincerely wish to convert to Islam. I cannot be a true Muslim unless I believe the shahada which in part states that Muhammad (pbuh) is a messenger. If I have sincere doubt about something The Prophet (pbuh) said then I am indirectly saying that I doubt the prophethood of Muhammad (pbuh), and thus do not actually believe the entire shahada. Therefore, I must dispel that doubt in order to become a Muslim. So it may be good enough for Jesus' (pbuh) messiahship to be declared in the Holy Quran for someone that is already a Muslim. However I must meet the requirements of the shahada in belief and then in declaration so that I may achieve that Muslim status to begin with.


Edited by Muanua - 15 February 2009 at 10:15pm
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Al-Cordoby  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 15 February 2009 at 10:39pm
Welcome to the forum
 
The answer to your question may be related to the return of Jesus, peace be upon him, which is mentioned in the sayings of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him (Hadith)
 
Take your time in studying these hadiths, and other aspects of Islam, as you have been doing so far, and when ready take the Shahada, not before
 
Hope all goes well In-Shaa-Allah, and if you have a specific question on this issue or other topics, please post
 
 
 


Edited by Al-Cordoby - 15 February 2009 at 10:39pm
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meedo  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote meedo Replybullet Posted: 16 February 2009 at 12:51am
I will reply to this thread when i come from work.
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waheed1  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote waheed1 Replybullet Posted: 16 February 2009 at 9:31am
Well, who was Jesus? He was a messenger of God, the Messiah, sent to clarify some misinformation on the part of the Jews.

That is, in essence, the Quranic assertion about the Messiahship of Jesus. The Jews rejected him because they wanted a military type figure, but that was not what God wanted.

For more, please listen to the following Friday prayer lecture.

Jesus in Islam
http://www.esnips.com/doc/ed101f97-7716-422f-b469-a6d6fc4924b2/jesusinislam



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Muanua
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Muanua Replybullet Posted: 16 February 2009 at 11:27am
Originally posted by waheed1

Well, who was Jesus? He was a messenger of God, the Messiah, sent to clarify some misinformation on the part of the Jews.

That is, in essence, the Quranic assertion about the Messiahship of Jesus. The Jews rejected him because they wanted a military type figure, but that was not what God wanted.

For more, please listen to the following Friday prayer lecture.

Jesus in Islam
http://www.esnips.com/doc/ed101f97-7716-422f-b469-a6d6fc4924b2/jesusinislam



 
Thankyou this was very helpful, from what I gathered is that the idea of the purpose of the messiah is different for Muslims than for Jews is this correct?
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meedo  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote meedo Replybullet Posted: 16 February 2009 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by Muanua

This may be the wrong section to post this under, if so forgive me. I am very interested in Islam, I very much believe it to be true and I would like to convert. I have done much research and I know how I even learned how to pray. The only thing that has kept me from converting is that I found that Jesus (pbuh) does not seem to fit the Jewish conception of the messiah. I understand that one must believe Jesus (pbuh) to be the messiah in order to be a Muslim, but I have not been able to find an explanation of the Islamic teaching of his messiaship. So if someone could reconcile this to me I would be most appreciative.
 
Peace
 
The Word Messiah is a derivative from the root word '' Ma Sa Ha''
 
This root word is common in hebrew and arabic , it means
 
To wipe.. or to pat on something or to sweep.
 
 
The confusion of his word with  bieng indicator of kings and leaders because kings and leaders in some time ago used to be ''annointed'' with holy oil bieng rubbed over their head as a way to inaugurate them into their new post as a king or leader.
 

''The concept of the messiah is neither common nor unified in the Tanakh. The term is used in the Hebrew Bible to describe Israelite priests, prophets, and kings who were anointed with oil in consecration to their respective offices. For example, Cyrus the Great, the king of Persia, is referred to as "God's anointed" (Messiah) in the Bible.''

Just like alot of words have different meaning when in a context of a situation than by bieng on their own, the word messiah on its own means to ''wipe'' or to ''pat '' or to rub'' . But as it was used in teh context to wipe holy oil on the heads of kings and leaders , it was taken for a sign of kingdom.
 
And here comes the big problem and the big difference.
 
Christians and jews take the meaning of the word in terms of how it was used .
 
Muslims take the abstract meaning fo it . Muslims believe jesus would cure teh sick and heal the blind by running ( wiping or Ma sa ha ) his hands over them . Thus his name '' Messiah''.
 
For Christians and jews , whomever is called the messiah is a chosen one or annointed one.  Or  king.
 
 
Just like saying the word ''Apache '' . In he original sense it refers to a native american tribe, while it is now most commonly used to refer to an attack helicopter.  Muslims use teh word in its original sense. While Christians and jews use it in its commonly used meaning in reference to certain culture.
 
 
As in terms to jewish prophecies. many of them i notice are actually fit not to the messiah but to another figure at the end of times called ' Al Mahdi'' ( The Guided one)
 
This man will be a good just political leader at the end of times. He will be contemporary to the coming of jesus . however both will die on earth and be resurected like normal human biengs.
 
 
Hope i clarified a bit,
 
best regards,
 
Meedo
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Muanua
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Muanua Replybullet Posted: 16 February 2009 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by meedo

Originally posted by Muanua

This may be the wrong section to post this under, if so forgive me. I am very interested in Islam, I very much believe it to be true and I would like to convert. I have done much research and I know how I even learned how to pray. The only thing that has kept me from converting is that I found that Jesus (pbuh) does not seem to fit the Jewish conception of the messiah. I understand that one must believe Jesus (pbuh) to be the messiah in order to be a Muslim, but I have not been able to find an explanation of the Islamic teaching of his messiaship. So if someone could reconcile this to me I would be most appreciative.
 
Peace
 
The Word Messiah is a derivative from the root word '' Ma Sa Ha''
 
This root word is common in hebrew and arabic , it means
 
To wipe.. or to pat on something or to sweep.
 
 
The confusion of his word with  bieng indicator of kings and leaders because kings and leaders in some time ago used to be ''annointed'' with holy oil bieng rubbed over their head as a way to inaugurate them into their new post as a king or leader.
 

''The concept of the messiah is neither common nor unified in the Tanakh. The term is used in the Hebrew Bible to describe Israelite priests, prophets, and kings who were anointed with oil in consecration to their respective offices. For example, Cyrus the Great, the king of Persia, is referred to as "God's anointed" (Messiah) in the Bible.''

Just like alot of words have different meaning when in a context of a situation than by bieng on their own, the word messiah on its own means to ''wipe'' or to ''pat '' or to rub'' . But as it was used in teh context to wipe holy oil on the heads of kings and leaders , it was taken for a sign of kingdom.
 
And here comes the big problem and the big difference.
 
Christians and jews take the meaning of the word in terms of how it was used .
 
Muslims take the abstract meaning fo it . Muslims believe jesus would cure teh sick and heal the blind by running ( wiping or Ma sa ha ) his hands over them . Thus his name '' Messiah''.
 
For Christians and jews , whomever is called the messiah is a chosen one or annointed one.  Or  king.
 
 
Just like saying the word ''Apache '' . In he original sense it refers to a native american tribe, while it is now most commonly used to refer to an attack helicopter.  Muslims use teh word in its original sense. While Christians and jews use it in its commonly used meaning in reference to certain culture.
 
 
As in terms to jewish prophecies. many of them i notice are actually fit not to the messiah but to another figure at the end of times called ' Al Mahdi'' ( The Guided one)
 
This man will be a good just political leader at the end of times. He will be contemporary to the coming of jesus . however both will die on earth and be resurected like normal human biengs.
 
 
Hope i clarified a bit,
 
best regards,
 
Meedo
 
Thankyou very much now I see! I very much appreciate they explantion.
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