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Aviatrix  
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bullet Posted: 07 August 2009 at 2:15pm
Precisely, Cyra.

I think Cinta's complaints are more about how Indonesian women are treated in Saudi Arabia--her assumption that Saudi "males" are perfectly implementing Islam is false. There are problems with racism and mistreatment, but really it's not compatible with her complaints about rape and so forth. There's a different problem.

The Qur'an never tells anyone to rape anyone, so it's utterly foolish to claim that someone is doing "100% what Quran tell them" when they are acting in obvious contravention to the Qur'an and Shari'ah.
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bullet Posted: 07 August 2009 at 10:40pm
Assalamualaikum,
actually Im just being observer for this discussion since I Believed Im not really capable to give the true answer. but anyway I can't hold it anymore to read cinta's posting. first of all you talking about the riot that happen in 1998 where there's  a story about mass raping..and even there's a website that shows pic of woman got rape. I dunno what's you real intention for telling those story because there has been some investigation about that from internation independent team..and you know what.. they found such story is a fiction!.even the pics in a website that claim to be a pic of raping is a fake!. and IF.you really witness. you just assumed the rapist is a good muslim just because they said Allahuakbar?? so if you saw someone's raping and shouting halleluyah then you'll assumed he's a good christian??
and then you telling story about woman abuse in arab & indonesia(?) and you're like making conclusion that it's because of what Islam told??..about  woman discrimination...yes..discrimination exist in here. and as well as in other place. but your story of woman discrimination in indonesia?sorry. but I personally don't believe it.
you know.. there's a lot of people coming here as an Islam hater and know how to read Qur'an and interpretate of their own. so if you're not muslim  hating Islam you don't have to pretending to be muslim.
 
dan kalau kamu bukan orang Indonesia gak usah bawa2 Indonesia denga cerita ngawurmu itu!
 
dear all, sorry for being OOT. just a bit pissed off to someone who said something wrong (and it's more like fitna) about my place and my believe as well
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bullet Posted: 07 August 2009 at 10:46pm
Originally posted by Aviatrix

Precisely, Cyra.

I think Cinta's complaints are more about how Indonesian women are treated in Saudi Arabia--her assumption that Saudi "males" are perfectly implementing Islam is false. There are problems with racism and mistreatment, but really it's not compatible with her complaints about rape and so forth. There's a different problem.

The Qur'an never tells anyone to rape anyone, so it's utterly foolish to claim that someone is doing "100% what Quran tell them" when they are acting in obvious contravention to the Qur'an and Shari'ah.
Im agree with you aviatrix. I think this person is trying to connect about what happen nowdays with Islam. about how Indonesian woman labour treated in saudi arabia. yes Im complaining that too.. about Bomb that just blasted few weeks ago.yes Im angry too..fyi. my office is really closed with the place.. when it happened. I was really shock & scared..but I know and everybody know that it has nothing to do with Islam. yet someone try to make it related here
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bullet Posted: 09 August 2009 at 6:39am
Originally posted by Bill2702

I think you're on the wrong bus Traveller!
 
 
I don't think so Bill.
 
 
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bullet Posted: 09 August 2009 at 12:24pm

Wasallamualaikum,

I believe Daichi is a metropolitan man with metro and western life. Hope he is a moderate muslim, not "devoted" muslim like my muslim brothers in West & Central Java. 
 
Mas Daichi itu muslim toh? Koq namanya Daichi, apa itu nama jepang??? Mas itu wong jowo ato bukan??? Apa mas sudah lama tidak ke daerah??? Mampir ke mari mas, ke tempat kami di sini mas bisa liat kenapa temen-temen muslim kita jadi fanatik kayak begini.
 
Btw, I was the witness of the mass rape, I saw my muslim brothers did it. So I can give the testimony.
 
Regards,
Cinta
 
 
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bullet Posted: 09 August 2009 at 12:28pm
Sister, we are talking about Islam here, and what is the truth of Islam.  And frankly your complaints do not have to do with Islam.
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bullet Posted: 09 August 2009 at 11:34pm
Wasallamualaikum all,
 
Yes, I do understand that we're talking about Islam, especially the interpretation of Ayats & Hadists that make my muslim brothers can do these "nasty/immoral" actions :
1. My muslim brothers can attack & rape kafirun girls in the kafirun villages in Central Java. They said they followed the Ayat & Hadist of Khaibar war.
Until now, I haven't got any answer, whether the ayat & hadist are still valid in our modern time?
 
2. My muslim brothers always think that girls & women have to be at home all time and have to use full covered jilbab / burka. If they against it, then the stoning punishment will be implemented by them. Again, they use the ayat & sahih hadists.
 
3. My muslim brothers can have sex with the servants of their wives. They said it is halal and they show me the ayats & the sunnah (Prophet with Mariah the coptic girl).
 
4. My muslim brothers support their fellows who marry with young girls. Marry with a 9-year old girl become halal. Again, they show me the justification from Quran.
 
5. Etc.
 
I do not know whether the ayats & hadists are still valid until now. Or we have to re-interpret the ayats & hadists again & again???? Btw, my muslim brothers choose to follow exactly what Ayats, Hadists & Sunnahs told them to do. 
 
Regards,
Cinta 
 
 
 
 
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bullet Posted: 09 August 2009 at 11:42pm
Wasallamualaikum,
 
Because they use the Ayats, Hadists & Sunnah, I believe they are related to Islam. And I really want to know why there are alot of interpretation???
 
Quran become our final guidance & it is obvious and precise. That's what my "nasty" brothers believe in. They said when it is halal to attack the kafirun properties (their houses & temple) and rape the kafirun females, then it is halal. Halal is halal and no question. Period.
 
They do not allow me to question why the rape can be halal. My oldest brother once slapped me when I asked why halal???
 
Regards,
Cinta
 
 
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bullet Posted: 10 August 2009 at 12:09am
Originally posted by cinta_nabillah

Wasallamualaikum all,
 
Yes, I do understand that we're talking about Islam, especially the interpretation of Ayats & Hadists that make my muslim brothers can do these "nasty/immoral" actions :

We're talking about the ayaat and ahadith which condemn the 'nasty/immoral' actions of your brothers. See:

1. My muslim brothers can attack & rape kafirun girls in the kafirun villages in Central Java. They said they followed the Ayat & Hadist of Khaibar war.
Until now, I haven't got any answer, whether the ayat & hadist are still valid in our modern time?


Let me be clear: there are no ayat or ahadith which allow muslim men to attack and rape women. Not from Khaybar or any other time. Not women who are among believers or disbelievers. Period. Your brothers are wrong if they say otherwise, it's that simple.
 
2. My muslim brothers always think that girls & women have to be at home all time and have to use full covered jilbab / burka. If they against it, then the stoning punishment will be implemented by them. Again, they use the ayat & sahih hadists.

Once again, there are no ayat ahadith which say women/girls have to be at home all the time.

3. My muslim brothers can have sex with the servants of their wives. They said it is halal and they show me the ayats & the sunnah (Prophet with Mariah the coptic girl).

Mariah was not a servant of Hafsah, but a wife of the Prophet (s)!
 
4. My muslim brothers support their fellows who marry with young girls. Marry with a 9-year old girl become halal. Again, they show me the justification from Quran.
There is no ayah in the Qur'an which specifies the age of marriage.  On the matter of the marriage to 'Aisha, it was acceptable at that time and generally is not acceptable today. It's a matter of 'urf in Islamic law that is not something I can adequately explain myself, but in short such marriages are not generally appropriate today.  Moreover, no woman may be married without her own consent.
 
I do not know whether the ayats & hadists are still valid until now.

You don't seem to know if they even exist.

Or we have to re-interpret the ayats & hadists again & again????
You cannot just "re-interpret" the word of God and His messenger to make the religion the way you want. Understand it the way it has classically been interpreted, and you will see how what I have explained to you here is the correct and valid interpretation. And how the twisted actions of your muslim brothers are a mockery of Islam.

Btw, my muslim brothers choose to follow exactly what Ayats, Hadists & Sunnahs told them to do.


Obviously, this is not true. It is obviously false because if your muslim brothers do what you describe, then they are doing what the Qur'an and the Sunnah prohibits, not what it commands. Quite the opposite, you see?
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bullet Posted: 10 August 2009 at 12:10am
Originally posted by cinta_nabillah

Wasallamualaikum,
 
Because they use the Ayats, Hadists & Sunnah, I believe they are related to Islam. And I really want to know why there are alot of interpretation???
 
Quran become our final guidance & it is obvious and precise. That's what my "nasty" brothers believe in. They said when it is halal to attack the kafirun properties (their houses & temple) and rape the kafirun females, then it is halal. Halal is halal and no question. Period.
 
They do not allow me to question why the rape can be halal. My oldest brother once slapped me when I asked why halal???
 
Regards,
Cinta
 
 


I guess you just believe what all these "nasty brothers" tell you, instead of actually learning for yourself?
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bullet Posted: 10 August 2009 at 3:05am
Originally posted by cinta_nabillah

Wasallamualaikum,

I believe Daichi is a metropolitan man with metro and western life. Hope he is a moderate muslim, not "devoted" muslim like my muslim brothers in West & Central Java. 
 
Mas Daichi itu muslim toh? Koq namanya Daichi, apa itu nama jepang??? Mas itu wong jowo ato bukan??? Apa mas sudah lama tidak ke daerah??? Mampir ke mari mas, ke tempat kami di sini mas bisa liat kenapa temen-temen muslim kita jadi fanatik kayak begini.
 
Btw, I was the witness of the mass rape, I saw my muslim brothers did it. So I can give the testimony.
 
Regards,
Cinta
 
 
 
 sorry sis. I won't replied to message since it's gonna be OOT.
Originally posted by cinta_nabillah

Btw, I was the witness of the mass rape, I saw my muslim brothers did it. So I can give the testimony.
sure you do  and everybody said so. about the mass rape. for me it's a case closed and that issue is soo yesterday. I've been discussed & debate that long time ago either in the real world & another forum (kaskus)  with people who claimed to have a proof or even the pics. but in the end all thing are just fabricated. and moreover. it's OOT!  lil bit information for you. am the same ethnic of the victim of the riot back then.
and again. you brought some strange story again. and brought up your so called devout friend and it makes me a bit wonder. somehow you believe your so called devout muslim friend more than anybody else. why don't you bring them to here so probably they can teach us -the people who not devoted & still learning-   and also from my point of view. aviatrix has explained clearly but somehow you just being thick head
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bullet Posted: 14 August 2009 at 4:50am
Wasallamualaikum all,
 
Responding to my sister Aviatrix (sorry in advance for the 'hard' respond)
 
Let me be clear: there are no ayat or ahadith which allow muslim men to attack and rape women. Not from Khaybar or any other time. Not women who are among believers or disbelievers. Period. Your brothers are wrong if they say otherwise, it's that simple.

Yes, it is your opinion. But you can read these ayats & hadists which my muslim brothers believe 100% on them :

a) Sahih Bukhari: Volume 5, Book 59, Number 459 (about Al Azl / coptus interreptus with the female kafiruns)
 
b) Hadis Abu Dawud (2150) (having sex in front of the female kafiruns' husbands)
 
c) Ayat in Quran 4:24
 
Moreover, they believe the ayats & hadists are still valid until now and have to be "implemented" precisely 100%. Reducing the meaning of the hadists & ayats are forbidden by them. They said the ayats & hadists are very clear and it is commands to the true muslim, to declare war & spread terror to the kafiruns, and also to show the their true love (true lust) to the kafirun females.
 
Sis Aviatrix comment:
Mariah was not a servant of Hafsah, but a wife of the Prophet (s)!
There is no evidence that our Prophet married with Mariah. Mariah was not officially Prophet's wife. In hadists, she was recognised as one of our Prophet's sex slaves. Moreover, Mariah had sex with our Prophet before married (sex before married). (*so tragic, my muslim brothers follow it by having sex with their female servants without any guilty).
 
Sis Aviatrix comment:
You cannot just "re-interpret" the word of God and His messenger to make the religion the way you want. Understand it the way it has classically been interpreted, and you will see how what I have explained to you here is the correct and valid interpretation. And how the twisted actions of your muslim brothers are a mockery of Islam.
I agree with you Sis. But my brothers do not interpret the ayats & hadists. They just follow exactly 100% the ayats & hadists. 
 
Btw, should I tell my muslim brothers to "think & filter" the ayats & hadists again??? I will be stoned by them if I said so.
 
Regards,
Cinta
 
  
 
 
 
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bullet Posted: 18 August 2009 at 3:29am
Or do those in whose hearts is disease think that Allah would never expose their [feelings of] hatred? And if We willed, We could show them to you, and you would know them by their mark; but [even so] you will surely know them by the tone of [their] speech. And Allah knows your deeds. The Noble Quran 47:29-30
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bullet Posted: 19 August 2009 at 5:11am
Wasallamualaikum all,
 
I was sad that my muslim brothers did not want to hear me that their actions were not permitted by Allah. They challenged me whether there is ayat, hadist or sunnah which order them to stop attacking and raping the kafirun females.
 
About the raping kafirun females, they said it is the kafirun's fault, why they do not want to cover their bodies with hijab, jilbab or burkah. And why they do not want to confess that Allah is the only God and our Prophet is the messenger of Allah.
 
So they said the kafirun females are halal to be raped. They refer it to the Khaibar war and other wars in our Prophet & Kalifahs' time. They said the kafirun females are the "right possesion" for the muslim brothers. Basically they just follow 100% what our Prophet ordered and what muslim soldiers did to kafirun girls. They do not want to argue or filter or adjust the ayats, hadists & sunnahs. They said it is final and still valid in our time.
 
So what should I do? Can I change their "pure" actions????
 
Regards,
Cinta  (in very sad mood, knowing the females become the object of lust, not love)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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