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Al-Cordoby  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 30 December 2016 at 11:01am
<<What is not logical is that Allah would preserve his word in the Quran and not the gospel>>

It is logical, Saved for one simple reason:

We Muslims believe that the Qur'an is God FINAL revelation to mankind which supersedes past revelations.

So if (as we believe) the Qur'an is the divine revelation all believers should follow, it makes sense that only the Qur'an is preserved, and God says He will preserve it:

"Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian." (15:9)

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Pain Replybullet Posted: 30 December 2016 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

<<What is not logical is that Allah would preserve his word in the Quran and not the gospel>>It is logical, Saved for one simple reason:We Muslims believe that the Qur'an is God FINAL revelation to mankind which supersedes past revelations.So if (as we believe) the Qur'an is the divine revelation all believers should follow, it makes sense that only the Qur'an is preserved, and God says He will preserve it:"<small ="times-new" -reactid=".219ape5fw80.2.2.0.1.2:$15-9-ayah.1.1:$0.1.0">Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian.</small>" (15:9)


Who was the we? And who have witnessed, and who was the witnesses? muslims only go after the words Muhammad without substantial evidence that Gabriel gave him the Quran or Allah gave him the Quran.

That may be true, but imagine how it makes Christians feel to be told, as I have been told hundreds of times, "You changed the Gospel." Does that not mean, "I don't believe you?"
No matter how we may feel, however, the question must be posed to both Christians and Muslims, "What are the proofs? What are the confirming witnesses that the words of the Gospel which Jesus spoke came from God? What are the confirming witnesses that the words of the Qur'an which Muhammad spoke came from God?"
When Muhammad walked into Mecca, or now walks into the mind of one who reads the Qur'an, and says that God spoke to him and told him about the day of judgement, how will the person hearing or reading know? Muhammad is only one witness - the first witness.
A SECOND WITNESS
When I have asked whether anyone other than Muhammad heard the Angel Gabriel, every person, except one, has answered that he was the only one. That man brought a hadith which is found in Nawawi's collection of 40 Hadith.
This hadith, which was transmitted by Muslim, tells of a man coming and asking Muhammad questions with the tone of voice used by a teacher, and approving of Muhammad's answers. When he left, Muhammad told Omar and the others present that the man was Gabriel. Perhaps so, but again we are left with Muhammad as the sole witness. It was not Gabriel who identified himself; it was Muhammad who made the claim.
It is a single witness in another sense too. With all the doubt there is concerning the Hadith, to base our belief on one Hadith transmitted by one specialist, is not very satisfactory.
On the other hand, it is characteristic of most prophets that only the prophet heard the voice of God or his angel. We have no record in the Torah-Old Testament of anyone else hearing God speak to Isaiah or Jeremiah; just as there is no record in the Qur'an that anyone else heard God speak to Hud or Salih. Two important exceptions to this were Moses and Jesus.
From Mt. Sinai God spoke to Moses and all the Children of Israel. They were so terrified that they asked God not to repeat it and it was on the basis of this request by the people that God said that He would send "a prophet like (Moses) from among their brothers" (Torah-Deuteronomy 18).
During the life of Jesus there were three times that God spoke openly as a second witness. The first time was when Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist (Yay Ibn Zakary),
"When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven. `You are my beloved Son, with you I am well pleased'." Luke 3:21-22.
Obviously, John and those being baptized at the same time heard this voice. The second time occurred in the presence of his three disciples - Peter, James and John. He took them up on a high mountain where he was transfigured. His clothes became dazzling. Moses and Elijah, who had each been dead for more than 900 years, appeared to Jesus. The account reads,
"Then a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and a voice came from the cloud, `This is my beloved Son. Listen to him!'"
"Suddenly, when they looked around, they no longer saw anyone with them except Jesus." Mark 9:7-8.

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 30 December 2016 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

<<What is not logical is that Allah would preserve his word in the Quran and not the gospel>>It is logical, Saved for one simple reason:We Muslims believe that the Qur'an is God FINAL revelation to mankind which supersedes past revelations.So if (as we believe) the Qur'an is the divine revelation all believers should follow, it makes sense that only the Qur'an is preserved, and God says He will preserve it:"<small ="times-new" -reactid=".219ape5fw80.2.2.0.1.2:$15-9-ayah.1.1:$0.1.0">Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian.</small>" (15:9)
It might make sense to you , but not us Christians. Mormons claim the Book of Mormon is the last revelation. The Quran tells us People of the Book to adhere to the revelations we received for we can do no other. Our revelation wasn't the Quran; it was and is the gospel.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 31 December 2016 at 1:35am
<<Our revelation wasn't the Quran; it was and is the gospel.>>

I understand that Saved

I'm giving you our point of view, as Muslims, answering your question.

Peace and all the best

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 31 December 2016 at 8:42am
Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

<<Our revelation wasn't the Quran; it was and is the gospel.>>I understand that SavedI'm giving you our point of view, as Muslims, answering your question.Peace and all the best

Al-C You have me to where there is nothing I can say except that I know what Muslims believe for the most part. We have been exposed to a lot of truth about our perspective belief systems and yet not one of us will repent. One of us needs to repent. The fact is both Christianity and Islam cannot be correct. Don't you agree? What is logical about preserving the last revelation and not the rest that is needed to support it. What previous Scriptures support Islam? So, you believe Allah sent and preserved the Quran that contradicts the gospel when the Quran was supposed to confirm it? How can this make sense to anybody?

Happy New Year
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Edited by Saved - 31 December 2016 at 8:50am
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 01 January 2017 at 1:16am
The original Torah revealed to Moses, peace be upon him, was of course correct because it is the word of God.

The same applies to the Injeel, Jesus received from God.

Man-made changes for worldly purposes is what led to corruption some parts of these scriptures.

That's what we believe, and yes it does make sense to only have the last revelation preserved and intact for all generations till the end, as that is what God wants believers to follow.

Wishing you an excellent new year 2017.

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2017 at 3:03am

NY Police Allows Muslim Beards, Sikh Turbans

NEW YORK – American Muslim police officers in New York will be allowed to grow beards for religious reasons, according to new polices by the New York police department aimed at inclusion of different faith groups.

“We’re making this change to make sure that we allow everybody in New York City that wants to apply and have the opportunity to work in the greatest police department in the nation, to make sure we give them that opportunity,” Police Commissioner James O’Neill was quoted by the New York Times as saying on Wednesday, December 28.

The new rules allow Sikh and Muslim officers to grow beards of 1.27cm long for religious reasons, in a move aimed recruiting more minorities...

http://aboutislam.net/muslim-issues/america/ny-police-allows-muslim-beards-sikh-turbans/


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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2017 at 9:37am
Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

The original Torah revealed to Moses, peace be upon him, was of course correct because it is the word of God. The same applies to the Injeel, Jesus received from God.Man-made changes for worldly purposes is what led to corruption some parts of these scriptures.That's what we believe, and yes it does make sense to only have the last revelation preserved and intact for all generations till the end, as that is what God wants believers to follow.Wishing you an excellent new year 2017.

There is no evidence that Jesus received a gospel anywhere in history before Islam. The only source for this info is what Muslims believe. That is not evidence. People believe all sorts of things. The Quran is not proof Jesus received a gospel either, because it is an isolated source like the Book of Mormon and its prophet author Joseph Smith.

You think it makes sense for Allah to preserve the last revelation but not the first revelation that's needed to support it; then, all I can say is "Good luck to you." How do you know it was Gabriel that acted as Allah's messenger? Didn't you know that Satan and his demons can appear as angels of light to deceive? Even Muhammad doubted his revelation; it was his wife that convinced him he was a prophet. Didn't Allah tell Muhammad to ask the "People of the Book" regarding any doubts about his prophet hood?

Didn't Eve beguile Adam. Satan is always up to his old tricks and people still fall for it, because they don't know Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. A question for you, why do you call Muhammad a messenger when the messenger was Gabriel if he was really Gabriel? All Muhammad did was recited what the messenger said. Prophets have always heard from God directly. We are told not to trust angels that go against the previous Scripture. How do you do it, I know how Muhammad did it; he listened to his wife? I question Mormons in the same way, but like you, they remain convinced they are on the right and straight path.

Don't you find it a discrepancy that the Quran was suppose to confirm the Scripture that came before, but instead it usurps them and contradicts them? Don't you think something is terrible wrong here?

I cannot just follow a religion without thinking about it or thinking it through first, and then if it makes sense to me, I pray about it, because what makes sense to me is not always something that can be trusted. Do you believe everything and anything that makes sense to you? To be honest with you, it doesn't even come close to making sense to me to even bother praying about it. I would even pray about what doesn't make sense to me only if it were in the Scriptures that came before, but not for contradictory scripture that come after the fact.

The Scriptures state that we should not lean to our own understanding for that is the way to death. True Biblical Christians such as myself are the people of the Book. We are monotheistic believers. We say God is one and Jesus is His Word. We don't associate a prophet with God directly unless that prophet is the Word of God Himself that God Himself used to create all things seen and not seen...

If you know Jesus, you know life; no Jesus, no life; that is the gospel (good news) to those that believe this. Thank God for the gift of Jesus. thank you and happy New year to you and yours as well.

PBUY,
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Edited by Saved - 02 January 2017 at 10:15am
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2017 at 10:00am
Lets think logically for a moment, Saved.

When a company releases a new software, it first releases Version 1.0, then a few months or a few years later Version 2.0, and later on Version 3.0 then Version 4.0 ....

When the last version is released, say version 9.0, which is the latest most sophisticated version, does the company tell its users use Version 1.0 or Version 9.0?

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2017 at 11:18am
Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

Lets think logically for a moment, Saved.When a company releases a new software, it first releases Version 1.0, then a few months or a few years later Version 2.0, and later on Version 3.0 then Version 4.0 ....When the last version is released, say version 9.0, which is the latest most sophisticated version, does the company tell its users use Version 1.0 or Version 9.0?

As high as the heavens are from the earth are God's ways from the world and our ways. We cannot use man's finite inventions to determine the ways of an infinite God.

What you state here all comes to leaning to your own understanding. The Scriptures say that is the way that leads to death. Besides, the newer version is the Book of Mormon and the prophet Joseph Smith. Why don't you believe this latest version of 10.0. Why do you go with the 9.0 version?
With all due respect Al-C Your reasoning eludes me, because it appears that you make logic and your own understanding your leader and not God

Edited by Saved - 02 January 2017 at 11:20am
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2017 at 12:17pm
<<the newer version is the Book of Mormon and the prophet Joseph Smith. Why don't you believe this latest version of 10.0. Why do you go with the 9.0 version? >>

Because God tells us in the Qur'an that Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, is His final messenger
 
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ishammad Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2017 at 1:28pm
Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2017 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

<<the newer version is the Book of Mormon and the prophet Joseph Smith.
Why don't you believe this latest version of 10.0. Why do you go with
the 9.0 version?
>>Because God tells us in the Qur'an that Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, is His final messenger 

Mormons say that the Book of Mormon says similar things about Joseph Smith. Why would I draw the line with the Quran when the latest version of God's revelation is out there?
It is the new version 10.0. You say it is logical to follow the 9.0 version, because God says it in the Quran, but rather than being logical isn't that circular reasoning?

What does the Quran have to offer us that is better than the gospel? From where I stand the Book of Mormon is a poorly plagiarized attempt of the KJV of the Bible and full of discrepancy and yet intelligent Mormons are willing to believe it is from God.

Allah and Muhammad never said the gospel is corrupted; this is modern Muslim belief to help with all the clashing of Scripture bwt, the Bible and the Quran, but Muslims offer no proof as to when the gospel became corrupted. You expect people to believe the Quran over the gospel because it is logical. Where is the logic then?

PBUY Brother of Humanity,
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Edited by Saved - 02 January 2017 at 4:46pm
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2017 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by ishammad



3:77-85

5:15-17

5:75-77


I read through these Scriptures and I would like to comment on this one first: 5:17: They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent.

We Christians understand Christ is the Word of Allah. He is the Word Allah used to create all things. He would never destroy His Word. That would be like the kingdom divided against itself. No Christian ever said Christ is Allah or the Father. We say God is one and Jesus is His Word; Muslims say Allah is one and Muhammad is his messenger.

We can associate the Word of God to God Himself without committing idolatry but not a messenger; besides, how is it Muslims can consider Muhammad the messenger when the messenger was supposed to be Gabriel? Muhammad simply recited the messenger. How does that make him the messenger? Angel means messenger! To Christians Jesus is not a messenger; He is the Message.

Lets look at 5:18: But the Jews and the Christians say, "We are the children of Allah and His beloved." Say, "Then why does He punish you for your sins?" Rather, you are human beings from among those He has created. He forgives whom He wills, and He punishes whom He wills.....

I don't speak for the Jews, but the Christians never say Allah punishes us, because Jesus took the punishment we deserved on the cross. Those who don't have Jesus as their Savior pay for their own sins in the past, present and future because God is just. It will be a horrible deserved punishment and an eternal separation from all that is called Allah/God, the life, the truth, the way and the light and peace.

I don't fear the Allah of the Quran because: Allah questions Jesus: "Did you say take you and your mother for two gods besides me... (He also says) they do disbelieve who say Allah is the third of three."

Allah alludes to a false trinity concept here about Christianity. That is an implied son, mother and father trinity and no Christian ever believed. Also Allah thought that Christians consider him the third person of the trinity. That is wrong as well. All it takes is one discrepancy to convince me that I need not fear the Allah of Muhammad's Quran.

The Holy Spirit is God, because God is not flesh and blood; He is Spirit and He is Holy; therefore, He is the Holy Spirit, but Muslim believe Gabriel is God's Holy Spirit. This is not correct, but I cannot help notice that Allah has a spirit according to the Quran. I have a spirit too. I was made in God's image and likeness as you all are. My spirit is the real me. I am a soul. I have a body and spirit.

In my minds eye, Islam is mostly a reaction against Christianity.

The Gospel states: https://www.openbible.info/topics/false_prophets



Edited by Saved - 02 January 2017 at 5:59pm
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