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Grotham  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Grotham Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2010 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by stranger

Originally posted by Grotham


]The Qur'an didn't stop it from happening and neither did the Muslim community or Muslim law enforcement - but the Methodists sure did. 


The Qur'an is not going to physically stop anyone from doing anything. However if any of these people were truly muslim and actually followed the Qur'an then no such thing would have ever happened.


Then, those of you who know better go and teach the ones who don't.  That would go a long way toward world peace and you would be fulfilling your own religious goals, nu?
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The_Seeker  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Seeker Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2010 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by Grotham


All those nice flowery words don't mean anything unless people heed them in the best positive way.   In this case a baby could have died.  It seems to me the Muslim community who knows the true meanings of their teachings need to help their co-religionists understand so they will be more accepted in the world.  Even tribal and cultural attributes have a right and wrong and that is one of the lamest excuses of all to use. 


I'm still waiting for a reference in the Quran or Hadith that makes this behavior acceptable.

Stories like this are only news because of the horrendous crime involved. "If it bleeds, it leads" as  journalists say. You don't hear about people doing good things, it just doesn't make good news. Does the news report about the thousands of daily flights that land without incident? No, you only hear about the plane crashes and when something unusual happens.

I sure don't condemn the entire Catholic community for all the pedophile priests that have been arrested over the last several years. It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with a few bad apples within the Catholic church. Yet all the good Catholics do via their charities and social work never make the news.


Edited by The_Seeker - 22 August 2010 at 6:18pm
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "The strong person is not the one who knocks others down, but the one who controls himself when angry."
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The_Seeker  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Seeker Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2010 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by Grotham

Originally posted by mai moslemah

You can mention many other situation which is the same even worse and more tragedy in your country from people who are Christian or Jew or athiest,....


Why not just tell the truth, the people who did that and let it happen were wrong and need to learn the "real" Islam for a change.


Uh, I already said this was a horrendous act, a tragedy, and never should have happened and it was wrong of them to do.

But they didn't do it for religious reasons. You're trying to make this incident the fault of Islam when it's not. Criminals will do what they do regardless of the religion they follow.
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "The strong person is not the one who knocks others down, but the one who controls himself when angry."
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The_Seeker  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Seeker Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2010 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by Grotham



Then, those of you who know better go and teach the ones who don't.  That would go a long way toward world peace and you would be fulfilling your own religious goals, nu?


This is not a religious issue! What they did to that little girl has nothing to do with Islam.

And now suddenly this is an issue of world peace???

Seriously, you need to stop this "collective punishment" attitude you have towards Muslims. I'm not responsible for what other Muslims do around the world do. I can only pray that they give up this kind of behavior and seek forgiveness.
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "The strong person is not the one who knocks others down, but the one who controls himself when angry."
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mai moslemah  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote mai moslemah Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2010 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by Grotham

My new born god daughter was left on the streets of a small town in Pakistan to die by her maternal (Muslim) grandfather because she was a female and the mother had refused to move to the US with her husband. 

The American father's extended family heard what was happening to the baby and rescued her from the street.  They then notified the American father.  The father and his father were rushed through .gov channels to where the baby had been taken by their family members and brought her out.  She is 9 years old now, absolutely beautiful, intelligent and lives a wonderful life in the USA. 

The baby's (Muslim) mother was sold to an older man as wife #4 from whom she is now divorced with even more children she has a hard time caring for. 
 
Let me show you what islam teach us about dealing with  our children especially daughters
 
 
The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever has three daughters and is patient with them and gives them to drink and clothes them, they will be a protection for him against the Fire.”They said, “O Messenger of Allaah, what about two?” He said, “And two.” They did not ask him about one.
 
the Mother of the Believers `A’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) also reported: "I have not seen a person more resembling to or following in the footsteps of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) than his daughter Fatimah (may Allah be pleased with her). Whenever she visited him (peace and blessings be upon him), he would receive her himself, kiss her, and have a seat for her beside him (peace and blessings be upon him). And whenever he visited her, she (may Allah be pleased with her) would receive him herself, kiss him, and have a seat for him beside her." (Reported by At-Tirmidhi and Al-Hakim).
 
The prophet peace be upon him said“Fear Allaah and treat your children fairly.”
 
There is so many other hadith which will prove to you that the Islamic teaching is very gentle and kind towards daughters
 
 




Edited by mai moslemah - 22 August 2010 at 6:47pm
But don`t you see?that i am truely free? this piece of scarf on me;i wear so proudly to preserve my dignity,modesty & integrity....why can`t i just be me??? "i am the one who is free!!!!

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote searching Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2010 at 8:41pm
This type of thing, as I said, is a cultural problem.  God was trying to stop this horrible practice by condemning it in the Qur'an.  But people don't always do what they should.  So one really can't attribute this to Islam when the most important holy book in Islam specifically prohibits it. 

There is female infanticide in China and other countries.  Is this also the fault of Islam?  Of course not, it is a disgusting cultural practice. 
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Grotham Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2010 at 9:17pm
Originally posted by The_Seeker

Originally posted by Grotham



Then, those of you who know better go and teach the ones who don't.  That would go a long way toward world peace and you would be fulfilling your own religious goals, nu?


This is not a religious issue! What they did to that little girl has nothing to do with Islam.

And now suddenly this is an issue of world peace???

Seriously, you need to stop this "collective punishment" attitude you have towards Muslims. I'm not responsible for what other Muslims do around the world do. I can only pray that they give up this kind of behavior and seek forgiveness.


Granted, it's not entirely a religious issue but this time it was committed by Muslims in a Muslim community in a Muslim majority country where Islam is the main religion.  Regardless of what you say, religion does enter into the picture. 

Instead of nagging about Islam not being the problem why aren't you concerned that this happens often in Muslim majority countries and work to HELP stop such debaucheries?  

With all the knowledge on this board alone, surely there is someone interested in stopping the murder of innocent children and the tie that gets you in the door in Pakistan, whether you like it or not, is Islam.  


Don't you do dawah to your own?  You could help instead of wasting your time griping. 


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Grotham  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Grotham Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2010 at 9:22pm
Originally posted by searching

This type of thing, as I said, is a cultural problem.   No kidding?  I sort of knew that. 


God was trying to stop this horrible practice by condemning it in the Qur'an.  But people don't always do what they should.  So one really can't attribute this to Islam when the most important holy book in Islam specifically prohibits it. 

Then it's time to take the bull by the horns and teach/preach to the ill-informed. 

There is female infanticide in China and other countries.  Is this also the fault of Islam?  Of course not, it is a disgusting cultural practice. 
 

Of course it's not.  Do you take me for a fool saying that? 

In China this problem would be addressed in a different way .. such as limiting the # of children a couple can have.   I doubt Islam with all its flowery words would make a dent in "cultural" Chinese.  


If you knew much about anthropology, you would know that this practice is not disgusting to the barbarian cultures that practice it. 
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Grotham  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Grotham Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2010 at 9:26pm
Originally posted by mai moslemah

 
Let me show you what islam teach us about dealing with  our children especially daughters



Instead of all this preaching, why can't you just say it's wonderful that the child survived and it's regrettable this sort of thing happens in this day and time? 

I don't give a fig what Islam "says" about 'our children especially daughters'
As I said previously, words don't mean a thing without action.  Did Mohammed just talk and preach or did he take action?  Aren't you supposed to imitate him?
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mai moslemah  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote mai moslemah Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2010 at 10:23pm
Originally posted by Grotham

Originally posted by mai moslemah

 
Let me show you what islam teach us about dealing with  our children especially daughters



Instead of all this preaching, why can't you just say it's wonderful that the child survived and it's regrettable this sort of thing happens in this day and time? 

I don't give a fig what Islam "says" about 'our children especially daughters'
As I said previously, words don't mean a thing without action.  Did Mohammed just talk and preach or did he take action?  Aren't you supposed to imitate him?
Grotham, this is an Islamic forum you must expect that we present what Islam teach, call it preaching or whatever you like.Of course I am sorry for the child but i dont accept to make islam is the reason for her pain
 
Regarding your question:
Did Mohammed just talk and preach or did he take action?  Aren't you supposed to imitate him?
This is a very good question. Do you know that it was a culture in Arabia before Islam came to burry girls alife!!! because they believe it is a shame to have a baby girl, and Islam make this prohibted and from the time islam came this habit is vanished . "And when the girl [who was] buried alive is asked For what sin she was killed" Quran 81:8-9
 
the hadith in my previous post show you how the prophet teached Muslims that a daughter can be a reason of protection from hell fire which has great change in Muslim family life.You might had bad experience but you cant generalize it, abusing is a global issue


Edited by mai moslemah - 22 August 2010 at 10:50pm
But don`t you see?that i am truely free? this piece of scarf on me;i wear so proudly to preserve my dignity,modesty & integrity....why can`t i just be me??? "i am the one who is free!!!!

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Cyra Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2010 at 10:49pm
Sorry, but I'm with Grotham on this.  It may not be a purely religious issue...here in  the US.  However, when speaking of ME/islamic  majority countries, it is part of the issue.  It's all fine and grand to say, "That's culture, not religion!!," but we all know that tribal custom, culture and religion get all mixed up there.  Law, religion, cultural hot mess.  Truth is, she's right.  Y'all can sit here, typing the same stuff in over and over, but until the people from  that part of the world start acting it, the way y'all are talkin' it up...won't make a difference.  THEY have to be the ones to prove it to the rest of the world.  We can't do it for them.
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mai moslemah  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote mai moslemah Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2010 at 11:02pm

salam Cyra

the OP was discussing this question "what kind of place you have win and taste as woman now between the corners of the islamic verdicts?
Is there any injustice? "
 
Grotham story was trying to answer this question that Islam is injustice to women
 
I dont agree as his story can happen in any part of the world
I dont know about the culture in pakistan but generalization cant be the truth.there might be muslims who do opress women but not Islam.I am a Muslim, my parent are Muslim and i was never opressed but i can claim this was because of Islam
But don`t you see?that i am truely free? this piece of scarf on me;i wear so proudly to preserve my dignity,modesty & integrity....why can`t i just be me??? "i am the one who is free!!!!

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The_Seeker  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Seeker Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2010 at 11:09pm
Originally posted by Grotham

  

Instead of nagging about Islam not being the problem why aren't you concerned that this happens often in Muslim majority countries and work to HELP stop such debaucheries?
 

When did I say I wasn't concerned about these issues? It's a human rights issue, so what are YOU doing to help stop such crimes?

And why do you assume I'm not doing anything? You have a nasty habit of assuming the worst in Muslims.


With all the knowledge on this board alone, surely there is someone interested in stopping the murder of innocent children and the tie that gets you in the door in Pakistan, whether you like it or not, is Islam.


 
Again, you are assuming no Muslim here is doing anything.  


Don't you do dawah to your own?  You could help instead of wasting your time griping. 


You really like to blame people, don't you.

You could also help instead of blaming Muslims for the world's ills.

Honestly, you are just taking this thread around in circles. You tried to blame Islam for what happened, then when you failed to produce any credible evidence that Islam condones violence against kids/women/fill-in-the-blank-here, you accused us of not caring. Then when we say we care, you accuse us of taking no action.

You have such a deep-seated hatred of Islam that nothing we say or do will satisfy you. As a Jew, you should understand the consequences of playing the blame-game and using collective punishment against an entire religion.




The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "The strong person is not the one who knocks others down, but the one who controls himself when angry."
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Seeker Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2010 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by Grotham



Instead of all this preaching, why can't you just say it's wonderful that the child survived and it's regrettable this sort of thing happens in this day and time? 


Are you kidding me??? Do we honestly need to actually come out and say we are happy that this child survived??? Do you really have such a dim view of Muslims that if we don't come out and say something like this, then we must not think it???

Okay then, for the record, I'm thrilled and extremely happy and it's wonderful this child survived. May Allah(swt) reward her for the hardships she has endured. Ameen.
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "The strong person is not the one who knocks others down, but the one who controls himself when angry."
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