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Meriam  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Meriam Replybullet Posted: 25 August 2010 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by Cyra

Thanks for the clarification, Merriam.  I understand the concept of hijab, I just choose not to wear it all the time.  I have seen the girls/women that wear it, but then their clothes are so tight, I can't figure out how they breathe.  I think I took pictures...I thought it shameful and laughable at the same time. 
Hello Cyra,
Thank you again to your interest and God thanks that you knew the concept of Hijjab but there is something in lack here in your understanding of this concept when you judge who wear it as a shameful and laughable landscape to take its pictures in order to joke or to laugh from women wearing the scarf whatever was its representation , tight or not... and as you said : '' I can't figure out how they breathe.'' You can just try if the experience makes the truth.
 
Sister, I said already that Hijjab is a verdict in our creed not just to hide hair but to be as respectful as possible avoiding any manner of temptation leading to abuse or molestation...
It is also a means to remember us that we as muslims , we should respect the other whoever and not make any prejudge refering to the deed of this or that person who is not perfect at anyway , saying then that there is some thing wrong in this verdict..so in Hijjab...
Remember that you can have an apple with so nice smell and a so beautiful look but you can loose this pleasure with just some dust coming on it above...
This is like what you spoke about : Hijjab is like that apple and what some women do by Hijjab as unsuitable cloth to wear (tight) or bad gesture to do despite of their Hijjab , this is the dust that make you misunderstand the real concept or meaning of the scarf as a verdict and a sacred order from allah to women's believers ...
Allah says in the Holy quran:
''And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed. (31)'' Qu'ran 24:31.
 
Cyra, Allah only knows well and more than me, you and all the most great scholars on the earth, what is our benefit and what is the best for as as woman or man..
Then, when Allah orders us, we have to obey and surrender to him the Gracious the Merciful whithout seeking to distort the aim of the verdict refering to some people who perhaps don't applicate it as it should be...This is the miscellaneous and from here comes any misconception, sister.
God guides you and us all to his light..the light of wisdom and piety.
Salam


Edited by Meriam - 25 August 2010 at 8:31pm
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Francophile  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Francophile Replybullet Posted: 26 August 2010 at 2:04am
Originally posted by hamayoun

Salam

What people choose to do in muslim countries is not the same as what Islam says. It's sufficient to say that the men involved in the kinds of activities you are talking about, even if muslim, are doing actions which lead to hell. As I try and keep saying, I am talking about ISLAM and the dignity given to women.
 
But you won't make the same differentiation when speaking of 'western' cultures. You speak of strip clubs, for example, as if they are ubiquitous, which is not true even in Las Vegas, most of which is not located on 'The Strip'.
 
You would like to state that all non-Muslims--and some Muslims-- are lustful, misdirected people, but you know perfectly well that's false.
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hamayoun  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote hamayoun Replybullet Posted: 26 August 2010 at 10:48am
Salam

That's not what I mean Francophile. Point is that these things are legal in the west, and totally forbidden in Islam : thus one system allows women to be stripped of their dignity, while the other system forbids it.   And strip clubs are very ubiquitous where I live, which is in central New Jersey. I read that in the UK, the number of strip clubs has gone up by 1000% in the last few years.
May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

My blog: http://regularbaba.blogspot.com/
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Francophile  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Francophile Replybullet Posted: 26 August 2010 at 11:05am
So you've chosen to locate yourself in the Great Megapolis. I live in the Heartland, in an area in which resides just over a million people. I found via Google exactly 6 strip club type enterprises in this entire metropolitan area.
 
And again, dignity is not endowed on someone by another person.
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freedom-lover
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote freedom-lover Replybullet Posted: 26 August 2010 at 11:14am

Hi Hamayoun

 

We Christians are concerned about the spreading of immorality in the society as much as you are. Worldly values have started creeping into the churches and mixing with our values. Of course we must guard against it with the power of the Holy Spirit and there is no question about it. Do you know the most “successful” country in the world to solve immorality? North Korea! North Korea is known for imposing strict laws, which may be seen as the law of the eye for eye and tooth for tooth. In terms of prostitution, perhaps it does not exist at all, because public execution is waiting for violators. In terms of child and other sexual abuses, perhaps it does not exist at all, because public shame and beating is waiting for violators. In terms of abortion, alcohol and drugs, perhaps it does not exist at all, because harsh punishment is waiting for violators. Do you want to immigrate to North Korea because it is the most sin free society? Is that really your ideal dream country? In fact what they do is much more evil than immorality. As I mentioned earlier, we Christians are very concerned about the spreading of immorality in the society and the creeping of worldly values into our churches and families.



Edited by freedom-lover - 26 August 2010 at 11:44am
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hamayoun  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote hamayoun Replybullet Posted: 26 August 2010 at 11:49am
Not sure exactly what point people are trying to make. My point is, if you are so concerned with women and dignity, which after all is the subject of this topic, it would be good to start at home, like those Christians on that site I referenced, as opposed to finding yet another excuse to bash Islam.
May Allah give me patience, Ameen.

My blog: http://regularbaba.blogspot.com/
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Francophile  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Francophile Replybullet Posted: 26 August 2010 at 12:01pm
I'm not bashing Islam. I'm bashing your bashing of 'the west' for being so decadent. The 'west' also allows women to live in dignity by making their own choices.
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freedom-lover
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote freedom-lover Replybullet Posted: 26 August 2010 at 12:13pm

Hi Hamayoun

 

As far as I know, this thread started first by a Muslim reader (Meriam) on the dignity of women in the Islamic countries, and then was confronted by non-Muslim readers, and then was diverted to the current topic, the immorality of some women in the west, by Muslim readers. During the discussions, I hope both sides of readers also had a chance to reflect with a critical mind on their own society as well as the other side. Is this not the benefit of open discussions? For this benefit we must accept the fact that our society is not perfect and there is always room for improvement and correction. Without this mindset, it would be useless and a waste of time. The fact is that there is discrimination of women in the Islamic countries and there are some immoral women in the west.



Edited by freedom-lover - 26 August 2010 at 12:22pm
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Cyra  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Cyra Replybullet Posted: 26 August 2010 at 3:21pm
Hamayoun, maybe Islam (religion) doesn't allow it, but if the people aren't practicing Islam (religion) properly, then muslim men are just as guilty of stripping women (in general) of their dignity.  And the muslim women that allow it, are just as guilty.  So again, while Islam gives it, the people take it away.
 
Meriam, I was not talking about hijab when I asked how could they breathe?  I was talking about their tight clothes. 
 
It's like they think this, "I'll wear these super tight, skinny jeans and tshirt, but as long as I have my khimar in place, I'm a good, pious muslim female."   I, on the other hand am more likely to make sure they un derstand  my disapproving look.  As far as taking a pic, yep I'd do it in a minute.  Not to laugh at them, but maybe to catch up with them and show them their mistake.  But think whatever you want of me.  I don't care what people think of me.  There's really only One opinion that counts.  And I'm pretty comfortable where I'm at with that usually.
 
And yes, it was oriental dancing, which I have my own personal opinion on.  But the fact is that American BDers DON'T strip, while arab ones do, apparently.  Hm, go figure. 
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a well wisher  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote a well wisher Replybullet Posted: 27 August 2010 at 12:12am
Muslim women wage jihad against violence
 
International Women’s Day on 8 March provides an opportunity to raise awareness of the work women are doing to combat gender inequality. Violence and inequality affect women around the world, including women in Muslim societies who, like their non-Muslim counterparts, are engaged on a day-to-day basis to improve their environments for the better.

Travelling back and forth to Muslim-majority countries such as Pakistan, I witness the amazing work that women are doing both for human rights and economic growth firsthand. Women are running companies, shelters and businesses, and countering the images of disenfranchised, illiterate and socially deprived Muslim women so pervasive in Western media.

Bushra Aslam, for example, opened an orphanage in Islamabad for young girls after the 2005 Pakistani earthquake. She provides educators, mentors, counsellors and interfaith activities for the 45 girls living there. Another inspiring figure is Rukhsana Asghar, the president of Fulcrum, a Pakistan-based human resources consulting company that offers scholarships to train girls from poor families in preparation for jobs.

Little is known in the West about the very positive initiatives taking place across the Muslim world. In Morocco, Egypt and Turkey, for example, women are being trained as religious guides, known as murshidat, to provide spiritual guidance for women and children in those countries.

And movements such as the Women’s Islamic Initiative in Spirituality and Equality (WISE), a global social network and grassroots social justice movement, aim to create opportunities for women in the Muslim world. One particular WISE project, Jihad (Struggle) against Violence, aims to end violence toward women to promote women’s advancement both in the Muslim world and beyond.

WISE is based on the idea that “[v]iolence is a human phenomenon that exists across diverse cultures and faith communities. It remains an ever-present reality in the lives of millions of Muslims, preventing entire societies from flourishing in religious, cultural, political and economic spheres. Throughout the world, violence destroys the ability of Muslim women to thrive within their families, communities and nations.”

On 6 February, WISE announced an international day of action against female genital cutting (FGC), a widespread custom across Africa. Since it happens to so many girls regardless of faith, Christian priests and Muslim shaikhs have come together to condemn the practice. To carry their message further, and as part of its ongoing Jihad Against Violence campaign, WISE is collaborating with the Egyptian Association for Society Development (EASD), a non-governmental organisation in Giza, to provide religious education against the practice, as well as financial incentives and replacement economic activities for those currently performing FGC.

For example, in 2008, members of the association reached out to Amin Hussein, a barber who regularly committed FGC illegally (Egypt banned FGC in 1996). After receiving educational training demonstrating that FGC is un-Islamic and harmful to women, Hussein agreed to stop the practice and was provided monetary compensation and new tools for his business through this programme.

It has been well over a year since Hussein committed FGC and he proudly displays in his shop a declaration from Al-Azhar University that FGC is un-Islamic and forbidden.

WISE also works toward the prevention and elimination of domestic violence, which many in the West falsely believe is more prevalent, or even sanctioned, in Muslim communities, due to stereotypes perpetuated by Hollywood and in Western media.

Some Muslims also mistakenly believe that Islam permits domestic violence. An attitude that is the result of cultural norms, tribal practices and a lack of knowledge of scriptural interpretations empowering women.

WISE is working to raise awareness of domestic violence and offer support to victims of abuse through its members and their organisations. WISE member and psychologist Ambreen Ajaib who works at Bedari, a women’s rights organisation in Pakistan, for example, provides psychological counselling to survivors of gender-based violence.

These are the kinds of commitments and transformations that Muslim women have made and continue to make to reduce the gender inequalities that result in FGC and domestic violence. Despite the work of organisations such as WISE to raise awareness of issues that negatively affect women and take real steps to stop it, more such effort is needed: the journey to equality for Muslim women is not yet over.
 
 
 
La ilaha ill-Allah, Muhammadur Rasulullah
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Francophile  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Francophile Replybullet Posted: 27 August 2010 at 9:31am
Thank you, well wisher, for informing us of this group. I have been reading their web sites.
 
These are women with dignity.
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a well wisher  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote a well wisher Replybullet Posted: 28 August 2010 at 3:57pm
You are most welcome Sister Lin:)
 
 
La ilaha ill-Allah, Muhammadur Rasulullah
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Cyra  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Cyra Replybullet Posted: 29 August 2010 at 11:33am
My question is, how did muslim women fade from a position of prominence during the prophet's time to where the majority of muslim women are now?  Bravo to the women that are doing something to bring to light the issues, like the ones in the article, but they are just a handful compared to the countless women that can't or won't do anything because they believe they aren't allowed.  And where do they get the idea that they aren't allowed?  Maybe from all the misinterpreted by MEN laws?  I wonder why, over time, muslim women have allowed men to dominate them so utterly?
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a well wisher  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote a well wisher Replybullet Posted: 29 August 2010 at 6:18pm

Assalaamualekum Sister Cyra...

Anyone who is familiar with the content of the Qur'an and the realities of Islamic history know that Muslims owe their earlier remarkable progress in the area of law and human rights to the Qur'an and deeply enshrined universal human principles....The status of women in premodern Islam in general conformed not to Quranic ideals but to prevailing patriarchal cultural norms..Traditionalist Muslim scholars sometimes stick to interpretations based on a set of outdated normative assumptions and archaic cultural premises which emanated from some historical realities that no longer exist today....Any interpretation of the Qur'an that is discriminatory against women or minorities is fundamentally contradictory to its core spirit, general principles and ultimate purposes...Education, reform and a deep understanding of our scriptural sources would Insha Allah bridge the gap between our values and implementation of it which seeks equity, justice and dignity for all ....The perspective of Muslim women needs to be included in order to understand the true contours of the problem...Oppression is a subtle, insidious thing  and not even fully understood by those who suffer from it.... Most forms of oppression are so deeply ingrained in society that those who suffer, and the ones they love, may help perpetuate it without realizing....I guess we all have to wake up and challenge the world around us to bring it back to the ideals we were meant to uphold as ordained by our religion...
 
Please take a look at this clip ....Dr Tariq Ramadan talks about the root of the problem
 
 
But there is light at the end of the tunnel Insha Allah...
 
 


Edited by a well wisher - 29 August 2010 at 6:19pm
La ilaha ill-Allah, Muhammadur Rasulullah
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