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ishammad  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ishammad Replybullet Posted: 08 November 2010 at 6:55am
Originally posted by chihuahua


One of the prerequisites for becoming a Mason is belief in God. They don't worship anything together, in fact discussion of religion or politics is discouraged in meetings. There are Christian, Jewish, Muslim and Deist Masons.
What I understand is that the prerequisite is actually to believe in 'a  God', 'a Super Being'.
(because it can be different from what another Mason believes is God)
 
In other words, they are saying, you must believe in a 'God', but not necessarily the 'True God'
(Because they cant differ about it and be correct at the same time)
 
I would have understood better if Masonry said: You have to believe in God and understand this concept as we do.
 
OR AT LEAST, if they said: We don really care about what you believe or believe not in this regard.
 
Does the above makes more sence when I conclude that may be 'someone' is waiting for the 'right time' to come and say: "I am the God whom you believed in but didnt see"?
 
Specially when we remember that The Dajjal/Anti-Christ will indeed do some extraordinary things somehow
 
I think this conclusion may also explain why those who didnt believe in 'a God' in the first place are not of much use in his scenario and hense excluded.

Originally posted by chihuahua

And there is no relation between Freemasonry and Zionism, except for a couple bizarre conspiracy theories on the Internet. Probably because Masonry uses rebuilding Solomon's temple as a motif, but it has nothing to do with rebuilding it in real life...
So they use the very same motif, what a chance! and this is in the open for a secret organization, that says alot by itself, I wonder if what is disclosed says more. sence I feel they are other common things and aims.
 
 
 
Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182
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Grotham  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Grotham Replybullet Posted: 08 November 2010 at 8:21am
Originally posted by ishammad

 
As for the connection with Masonry and Zionizm, i am making this connection 

I think you have been taken in by conspiracy theories, ishammad.  There is no valid connection.
 
 

"non-profit charitable organization"?

This doesnt explain the secret nature and the threating with death penalty if you reveal a secret, and the sharp things kept on a nacked chest even when 'initiating'.

There is no "secret nature", no more than any other fraternity. 
 
and all that much appreciation for Lucifer as I see in this video.
 
The Misunderstood non-profit charitable organization

That seems to be one nut case talking to another nut case.  I'd be careful what I watched on youtube especially  when trying to gather factual information if I were you.   That video is one person's opinion or recorded experience - more proselytizing of religion than anything to do with Masonic work.

Maybe you should actually talk to some Masons on their home turf (so you will be sure to talk to the genuine article) or join the local chapter and see for yourself what they do and, more importantly, don't do.

 
I suppose this is how Persian Showls looks like these days

There have been beautiful Persian designs and fabrics for hundreds of years.  It's an art form.  Does G-d really care who the designer of shawls is?
 
 
It is so rank it rankles. jimdi
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ishammad  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ishammad Replybullet Posted: 08 November 2010 at 12:20pm

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism all believe in the coming of the leader of the great and final battle whom they all call the Messiah.


The Jews are looking forward to his coming because they claim he will bring about God's kingdom on Earth, after the establishment of a Jewish nation in Palestine. They await a leader from among the children of Prophet Dawud, alayhes salam. According to Imam Ibnul Qayyim, when this leader "moves his lips in prayers all the nations will die." They claim that he is the promised Messiah, and call him the 'Prince of Peace'. Believing that he will make all mankind subservient to the state of Israel, they are preparing for his arrival by gathering in Palestine. According to their beliefs, he will come to rule the Earth and reside in Jerusalem, which he will take as his capital. The person they are waiting for is the Dajjal, whom the Christians call the Antichrist. This is why the majority of the Dajjal's followers will be from the Jews.

The Christians and the Muslims agree that this promised Messiah leader is Eesa who will descend from heaven and return to Earth to lead the great battle. This battle will be led by Eesa against the Dajjal and his followers.

The Christians believe that before the second coming of Eesa, those who believe in Eesa as the son of God will experience 'the rapture' when they will be raised up into the heavens to meet their Lord, and thereby will be saved from the Antichrist. They base their belief on the corrupted text of the Bible: "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ [i.e., the dead Christians] will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). The rest of the people will be left to perish with the king of darkness, son of Satan. 

 
Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182
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ishammad  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ishammad Replybullet Posted: 08 November 2010 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by Grotham

I think you have been taken in by conspiracy theories, ishammad.  There is no valid connection.
 
The Anti-Chirst and his followers is a conspiracy indeed, to the extend that every prophet warned his people from it.
 
In spite of what I see as a common symbols, objectives and aims between Mosonry and Zionism, but lets say connection between them is is not the main Issue.
 
Originally posted by Grotham

There is no "secret nature", no more than any other fraternity. 
 
I honetly do not know what more you want them to do to be described as secret society,
 
Fraternity in what? Lucifer? The Anti-Chirst?
or in Jahbulon or one of the other strange names used in their rituals? or simply in God Almighty (the Creator) but using their own religious terminology.
 
Originally posted by Grotham

That seems to be one nut case talking to another nut case.  I'd be careful what I watched on youtube especially  when trying to gather factual information if I were you.   That video is one person's opinion or recorded experience - more proselytizing of religion than anything to do with Masonic work. 
 
Honestly i am not expecting to see many people or even Masonic Shrines out there in the streets recorded saying we worship Lucifer, and he is light, pure, virtuous. at least not before The Anti-Christ declares himself and claims to be God.
 
Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182
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Grotham  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Grotham Replybullet Posted: 08 November 2010 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by ishammad

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism all believe in the coming of the leader of the great and final battle whom they all call the Messiah.


The Jews are looking forward to his coming because they claim he will bring about God's kingdom on Earth, after the establishment of a Jewish nation in Palestine. They await a leader from among the children of Prophet Dawud, alayhes salam. According to Imam Ibnul Qayyim, when this leader "moves his lips in prayers all the nations will die." They claim that he is the promised Messiah, and call him the 'Prince of Peace'. Believing that he will make all mankind subservient to the state of Israel, they are preparing for his arrival by gathering in Palestine. According to their beliefs, he will come to rule the Earth and reside in Jerusalem, which he will take as his capital. The person they are waiting for is the Dajjal, whom the Christians call the Antichrist. This is why the majority of the Dajjal's followers will be from the Jews.

The Christians and the Muslims agree that this promised Messiah leader is Eesa who will descend from heaven and return to Earth to lead the great battle. This battle will be led by Eesa against the Dajjal and his followers.

The Christians believe that before the second coming of Eesa, those who believe in Eesa as the son of God will experience 'the rapture' when they will be raised up into the heavens to meet their Lord, and thereby will be saved from the Antichrist. They base their belief on the corrupted text of the Bible: "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ [i.e., the dead Christians] will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). The rest of the people will be left to perish with the king of darkness, son of Satan. 

 


This must be Islamist outlook because it certainly isn't Jewish, ishammad.  You shouldn't be giving such misinformation about other religions just because it is your opinion.  Otherwise, you need to cite your sources so the rest of us will know what you are quoting.
It is so rank it rankles. jimdi
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Grotham  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Grotham Replybullet Posted: 08 November 2010 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by ishammad

Originally posted by Grotham

I think you have been taken in by conspiracy theories, ishammad.  There is no valid connection.
 
The Anti-Chirst and his followers is a conspiracy indeed, to the extend that every prophet warned his people from it.
 
In spite of what I see as a common symbols, objectives and aims between Mosonry and Zionism, but lets say connection between them is is not the main Issue.

No connection at all is quite different from "not the main issue".  Let's be honest in what information is propagated here. 
 
Originally posted by Grotham

There is no "secret nature", no more than any other fraternity. 
 
I honetly do not know what more you want them to do to be described as secret society,
 
Fraternity in what? Lucifer? The Anti-Chirst?
or in Jahbulon or one of the other strange names used in their rituals? or simply in God Almighty (the Creator) but using their own religious terminology.

A fraternity is a group of men, a brotherhood, if you will.  No where does it say that Masons have to be religious of one kind or another.  You are greatly mistaken.  And Judaism doesn't give purchase to your lucifers, satans, jins, dajahls or whatever names you call your "evil spirits", certainly not in the way you say here.  Again, you seek to defame other religions in order to give credence to yours.  That is dishonest and arrogant.  
 


There are many great human beings who are/have been members of Masonic Orders.  You should avail yourself of investigation prior to contempt before making such rash and untrue judgments of others. 
It is so rank it rankles. jimdi
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LtTony  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote LtTony Replybullet Posted: 08 November 2010 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by talib84

... it makes me think that the US is the dajjal -- it matches a great deal of prophecies concerning the antichrist.




That statement explains a lot.

You passed on the obligatory disclaimer and instead chose "But that is pure speculation."





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talib84  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote talib84 Replybullet Posted: 08 November 2010 at 4:13pm

Lt, whenever you speak, I just have to take a deep breath and remind myself of "sabr." You are definitely a very grumpy person always looking for a reason to argue with someone. I pray God brings you to Islam.

"To be sure, Jesus will come and will restore all things. But I tell you, Jesus has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished."
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Deserves2Die  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Deserves2Die Replybullet Posted: 08 November 2010 at 4:27pm
lol
 
Ameen to that talib.
 
D2
Propagate Islam, atleast Once DAILY
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LtTony  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote LtTony Replybullet Posted: 08 November 2010 at 4:48pm
Originally posted by talib84

Lt, whenever you speak, I just have to take a deep breath and remind myself of "sabr." You are definitely a very grumpy person always looking for a reason to argue with someone.



Similarly, I also take a deep breath before replying to one of your many confused posts.  For example, you express the thought that the US may be the anti-christ, and I'm expected to give it a pass.

America is the "Great Satan." (Ruhollah Khomeini, 11/5/79)
America could be the anti-Christ. (Talib, 11/8/10)

I may want to argue about that.  So you'll have to excuse me.




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talib84  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote talib84 Replybullet Posted: 08 November 2010 at 4:53pm
Well, instead of reading one of my "confused posts", read the Bible! Careful study will bring you to Islam, inshallah :).
"To be sure, Jesus will come and will restore all things. But I tell you, Jesus has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished."
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talib84  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote talib84 Replybullet Posted: 08 November 2010 at 4:56pm
Oh, and Jesus (p) was a Muslim .

Edited by talib84 - 08 November 2010 at 4:57pm
"To be sure, Jesus will come and will restore all things. But I tell you, Jesus has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished."
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LtTony  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote LtTony Replybullet Posted: 08 November 2010 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by talib84

Well, instead of reading one of my "confused posts"....



You mean confusion like this?

"I was always of the opinion myself that the Dajjal himself was actually a kingdom or country. When I read the hadiths through this perspective, it makes me think that the US is the dajjal -- it matches a great deal of prophecies concerning the antichrist. "


After posting this:

"I don't see the current system in the US to be anti-Muslim -- how much more Muslim-friendly can it be while still maintaining its status as a government which separates church and state? We have a tremendous amount of rights to practice our religion as we see fit, we're allowed to preach to others, build mosques, etc. America is a blessing for Muslims trying to give da'wah while at the same time being free to practice their religion just short of establishing sharia laws. I see our country as being extremely Muslim-friendly and as a perfect breeding ground for the future generations of Muslims who will follow pure Islam and not a mix of culture and Islam as many Muslim countries have fallen victim to."
http://www.whyislam.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27125&PID=548613#548613

With you, it's whichever way the wind is blowing at the moment.


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ishammad  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ishammad Replybullet Posted: 09 November 2010 at 2:51am

Dear LtTony,

May people feel there are two Americas if you wish, the one which talib mentioned some of its positive things about it, America which some of its presidents warned its people from certain influences, etc, which we feel is the Christian America.

And America of the unjust foriegn policy, of blind support to opression, voilates human rights, media twisting truth, unlawfully wants to take other's resources. spends many many billions on unjust wars based on lies, one  with a deceit division in its deparments. with the Zionists in control. America which the Palestinian, Lebanise, Iraqi and Afghani families know, etc...
 
After all, Grand Mason with high degree once said, "Masonry is nothing... just resources and revolutionary army" this is the one seen as the Anti-Christ army, the Anti-Christ America.
 


Edited by ishammad - 09 November 2010 at 3:11am
Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182
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