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Perseveranze
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Perseveranze Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by Nura

 
For Damo: Do you know Magdi Cristiano Allam?


Asalaamu Alaikum,

Goes from being a "religious muslim" to being a Islamphobic Christian. Believable

Some criticized the publicity given to the conversion, thus questioning his sincerity and even suggesting a politically-motivated apostasy.[17]


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AdhamS  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote AdhamS Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by Nura

I'm an Italian expatriate
 
Yes, if you live in Saudi Arabia or Iran or Pakistan you risk a lot if you convert to any other religion. Of course it's more dangerous than a Christian who becomes Muslim in Europe or the USA, and still even this is not a piece of cake. Families are going to be disappointed by one of their members changing religion, and this is true for all faiths.
 
For Damo: Do you know Magdi Cristiano Allam?
For me I see people leaving Islam and joining another religion is like committing high treason. Islam is not just a faith you keep in your heart.
As my father used to say "Its like a catalog for us, it tells what you to do from sleeping with your wife, to managing foreign and internal policies". We are supposed to be of a single Nation..Nation of Islam (not related to NOI in USA :P). We are supposed to put Nationalism behind us as I have more in common with Sister Nura and Brother Talib than an Egyptian coptic.
      But thats me, if he wants to talk about how Islam is not the right religion, he should do it in the west.
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Francophile  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Francophile Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 1:38pm
Time to move on to
 
NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION


Edited by Francophile - 13 December 2011 at 3:37pm
I don't object to the notion of a deity, but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendence.

(Amy Farrah Fowler, TBBT)

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Perseveranze
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Perseveranze Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 1:39pm
Originally posted by talib84

But for the most part, Perse is right. It's very rare to see a Muslim who had at least some fundamental understanding of his or her religion become a Christian.


Asalaamu Alaikum,

This is what I edited before because I thought it may be off-topic. But its relevant to this so I'll add it back.

It's not just today, Muslims have rarely ever converted to Christianity throughout history. It's truely denial at its peak if someone believed that as many  Muslims  that converted to Christianity is remotely close to the Christians that converted to Islam.

On top of that, any that, "do convert to Christianity or Leave Islam" end up being Crusade-Like hate mongers. Where's as the former Christian simply says; "I've become closer to Jesus(pbuh) and understand his message better" and leaves it at that.


Hilaire Belloc (1870- 1953) a Roman Catholic, French-born historian and one of the most prolific writers in England saw the difficulty of winning converts from Islam back in the 1938:

Islam is apparently unconvertible. The missionary efforts made by great Catholic orders which have been occupied in trying to turn Mohammedans into Christians for nearly 400 years have everywhere wholly failed. We have in some places driven the Mohammedan master out and freed his Christian subjects from Mohammedan control, but we have had hardly any effect in converting individual Mohammedans* . . . .


Kreeft, Peter. “Comparing Christianity & Islam.” National Catholic Register May1987:

“Islam has the world’s lowest rate of being converted and one of the world’s highest rates of converting.”


World Christian Encyclopedia: A comparative study of churches and religions in
the modern world:


“. . . Christianity has experienced massive losses in the Western and Communist worlds over the
last 60 years. In the Sovient Union, Christians have fallen from 83.6% in 1900 to 36.1% today.
In Europe and North America, nett defections from Christianity—converts to other religions or to
irreligion — are now running at 1, 820, 500 former Christians a year. This loss is much higher . .
. .”

The Great Heresies written by a catholic Hilaire Belloc (1870-
1953) who was a prolific writer and historian:


Whatever the cause be, Mohammedanism has survived, and vigorously survived. Missionary effort
has had no appreciable effect upon it. It still converts pagan savages wholesale. It even attracts
from time to time some European eccentric, who joins its body. But the Mohammedan never
becomes a Catholic. No fragment of Islam ever abandons its sacred book, its code of morals, its
organized system of prayer, its simple doctrine. In view of this, anyone with a knowledge of history
is bound to ask himself whether we shall not see in the future a rival of Mohammedan political
power, and the renewal of the old pressure of Islam on Christendom.


^ Guinness World Records. 2003. Guinness World Records. 2003. p. 102:

Although the religion began in Arabia, by 2002 80% of all believers in Islam lived outside the Arab world. In the period 1990-2000, approximately 12.5 million more people converted to Islam than to Christianity.[24]




Edited by Perseveranze - 13 December 2011 at 1:42pm
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AdhamS  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote AdhamS Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 1:41pm

Magdi Allam....aaah yes...and that Palestinian guy who became a spy for Israel. Not shocked. Egypt had it's share of these kind of people in the past as well.

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talib84  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote talib84 Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 1:42pm
^ Pretty solid facts and numbers.
 
12.5 million MORE people to Islam than Christianity...that's got to be significant.
 
I wonder if the total number of people converting to Islam was 13 million lol.
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AdhamS  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote AdhamS Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by Francophile

Time to move on to
 
NO COMULSION IN RELIGION
I am not holding an AKM and aiming it on your head and telling you to become a Muslim am I? ENTERING ISLAM is something, thats why when you join Islam and announce it you should be fully aware of what you are doing. Its like someone joining the U.S. army and then decides to travel to..RUSSIA! Get the image?
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 1:57pm
I'm an Italian expatriate
Yes, if you live in Saudi Arabia or Iran or Pakistan you risk a lot if you convert to any other religion. Of course it's more dangerous than a Christian who becomes Muslim in Europe or the USA, and still even this is not a piece of cake. Families are going to be disappointed by one of their members changing religion, and this is true for all faiths.
For Damo: Do you know Magdi Cristiano Allam?
 
-Nura
 
 
 
 At first i wasn't familiar by name.. but after googling it .. i remember the news concerning it... but in all honesty i was thinking .. BIG Deal at the time..
 
But Nura.. even in many secular Western countries still have problems with serious threats towards ex-Muslims.. i could catalogue them they are not rare, to restrict them to being commonplace in only predominantly Islamic countries is not telling the full story.


Edited by Damo808 - 13 December 2011 at 2:03pm
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 2:02pm
Talib and Perse..
 
 When the killing of 'apostates' is commonplace... these stats mean nothing but only point to the fact that Islam is a spiritual prison for those who simply have no faith in it... Therefore what point is there in quoting such stats... But i guess that doesn't matter when the huge pink elephant in the room is not mentioned..
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by Francophile

Time to move on to
 
NO COMULSION IN RELIGION
Originally posted by AdhamS

I am not holding an AKM and aiming it on your head and telling you to become a Muslim am I? ENTERING ISLAM is something, thats why when you join Islam and announce it you should be fully aware of what you are doing. Its like someone joining the U.S. army and then decides to travel to..RUSSIA! Get the image?
 
 What of those who just happen to be born into the faith.. and later wish to convert away from Islam... That AKM is still pointing at them... did they have the choice ?  More are born into it than those who convert to it... Thats the problem (for them at least).
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 2:11pm
Goes from being a "religious muslim" to being a Islamphobic Christian. Believable
- Persey
 
LOL... yeah.. same 'phenomenon' happens with 'reverts' all the time... Just look back at those those Youtube uploads again . 



Edited by Damo808 - 13 December 2011 at 2:12pm
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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talib84  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote talib84 Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 2:16pm
I don't deny that Muslims might have it worse than Christians do, but then how do you explain how so many Muslims gave up their religion in favor of a religious ideology like atheism? They're still giving up Islam, only they're not doing it for Christianity.
 
Truth is, there is persecution in both camps. The Muslim camp might be stricter and tougher, but there is still persecution in both camps. And you say that people born into Islam but who don't believe in it are in a spiritual prison.
 
Well this may be true to some extent, depending on where you live. But don't you think that this same variable applies to Christianity as well? Christians in strong Christian states like Uganda or some other third-world culture might have similar experiences as Muslims in Muslim countries.
 
Or what about the stories I hear of Arab Christians who leave Christianity to become Muslims? There was a story either in this forum or by one of my Egyptian friends that two Egyptian Christians converted to Islam and they both disappeared. Then the Muslims started protesting because they were killed.
 
Damo, you have to admit that some cultures are much more resistant to change, independent of religion. Like I pointed out, there are Christians in certain parts of the world that act as Muslims do in certain parts of the world. 
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote AdhamS Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 2:17pm
[
 
 
This might be shocking to you but, executioning of apostates only happens in Saudi Arabia, not because the other governments deny it, but they are simply not bothered with it. I know alot of Muslims who became agnostics (very few became atheists) and they are having their spiritual life intact and enjoying their life...well they would enjoy it more when they go to Canada where they would be able to do things they cant do here like drinking alcohol in public.
 
No one chases some guy and tells him did you PRAY HUH!?!?!? DID YOU PRAY?!?!?!?! (unless its my parents lol!) I didnt go and report them to the nearest Police HQ or somethin...and they are not hiding their faith.
 
The AKM is aim on everyone's head whether they are Muslim or Christian or Jew..its called Nationalism. Think of it as you (I assume you are an American) travelling to North Korea for example some how and decide to turn against your country. Get the image?
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by AdhamS - 13 December 2011 at 2:18pm
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Perseveranze
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Perseveranze Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by Damo808

Talib and Perse..
 
 When the killing of 'apostates' is commonplace... these stats mean nothing but only point to the fact that Islam is a spiritual prison for those who simply have no faith in it... Therefore what point is there in quoting such stats... But i guess that doesn't matter when the huge pink elephant in the room is not mentioned..


Peace,

Show me "all these apostate common killings"? Because, Iran, which has the strictest interpretation of this, hasn't killed an apostate for over 20-30+ years. That recent case was the first to come in a while, that's why it was high profile because of the rarity of such an event, but we find out that he wasn't persecuted for changing religion, it was another reason that was completly irrelevant.

I mean, if it was "common" then why was Iran so high profile? Try to think here, the western media are also desperate for any opportunity to defame Islam and in all these years they only have a false flag alert from Iran.

Please refrain from saying things without evidence.

And if you want to know an Islamic perspective on the whole issue, read this - http://www.loonwatch.com/2009/09/apostasy/


Originally posted by Damo808

Goes from being a "religious muslim" to being a Islamphobic Christian. Believable
- Persey
 
LOL... yeah.. same 'phenomenon' happens with 'reverts' all the time... Just look back at those those Youtube uploads again . 



Peace,

I watch alot of them, and none of them begin to hate on Christianity or call it the "root of all evil".

Common Damo, some things are so obvious, I don't know why you're in denial like this.

I say the same thing to other Christians and they don't tend to act that way, they just quote some bible verses about how the "devil will decieve alot" or whatever it was lol.





Edited by Perseveranze - 13 December 2011 at 2:29pm
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