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talib84  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote talib84 Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 2:24pm
It's interesting though that different Christian groups act in different ways. My brother was recently talking to his priest about religion and they always bring me up as a topic for discussion being a former Catholic having embraced Islam. The priest says that Islam is not a bad religion at all, that there rotten apples in every religion, and that it's Judaism that's the root of evil lol (not in so many words). He said that most Muslims are good people and that the religion, like every other religion, teaches very good things. He was 100% -- nay, 200% -- against the Jewish faith and the Israelis, saying that they are persecuting the poor Palestinians.
 
But yet Perse is right, we still see regular Christians and pastors from the Protestant sects burning Qurans, putting down Islam, using lies and deceptive tactics to win converts, etc.
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talib84  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote talib84 Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 2:26pm
But I think for the most part the Protestants dislike Muslims just as much as they dislike the Catholics lol
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Perseveranze
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Perseveranze Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by talib84

 
But yet Perse is right, we still see regular Christians and pastors from the Protestant sects burning Qurans, putting down Islam, using lies and deceptive tactics to win converts, etc.


Asalaamu Alaikum,

Most aren't even reported. But when a Muslim does it, it's all over the news.

Did you hear about;

Christian stoning someone because they are gay, yet no news coverage of it - http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/03/shocking-stoning-in-philadelphia-of-homosexual-what-if-they-were-muslim/

Or the Christian terrorist attempt to shoot Obama, yet little coverage - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYaDeR9UucM

Many here - http://whatiftheyweremuslim.com/

So many examples. Yet only when Muslims do it, we know about it.

As you stated earlier, there are sadly bad apples in every religion or faith or group of people.


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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 2:46pm
I don't deny that Muslims might have it worse than Christians do, but then how do you explain how so many Muslims gave up their religion in favor of a religious ideology like atheism? They're still giving up Islam, only they're not doing it for Christianity.
-Talib
 
 
  Perhaps because with such indoctrination in their youth and in their everyday culture, Islam has the uncanny knack of driving ANY belief in God from people altogether... This has nothing to do with Christianity...
Truth is, there is persecution in both camps. The Muslim camp might be stricter and tougher, but there is still persecution in both camps.
 
 Well Talib ... For every example you show me of where there is a fatality due to conversion, i'll provide you with ten... hows that ? we'll see who still has plenty of amo to continue, and how long it will be before the thread is closed..
 
 
 
 And you say that people born into Islam but who don't believe in it are in a spiritual prison.
Well this may be true to some extent, depending on where you live. But don't you think that this same variable applies to Christianity as well? Christians in strong Christian states like Uganda or some other third-world culture might have similar experiences as Muslims in Muslim countries.
 
 As i said... lets take my challenge above, and we'll see how disproportionate the problem is... what do you say ?
Or what about the stories I hear of Arab Christians who leave Christianity to become Muslims? There was a story either in this forum or by one of my Egyptian friends that two Egyptian Christians converted to Islam and they both disappeared. Then the Muslims started protesting because they were killed.
 
 I see... two you say... unfortunate..hence why i say we need to find out just how big the problem is on either side..
 
 So are you game ? For every fatality due to conversion you provide, i must provide ten... ? Surely if situation is the same i'll run out of instances fairly quickly ?
 
 
Damo, you have to admit that some cultures are much more resistant to change, independent of religion. Like I pointed out, there are Christians in certain parts of the world that act as Muslims do in certain parts of the world.
 
 
 
 Sure there are... But the point is they are extremely rare and do not happen in everfy corner of the world like it does within Islam even in Non Islamic countries.... I'd be more than happy to detail them Talib..


Edited by Damo808 - 13 December 2011 at 2:47pm
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 3:02pm
Peace,

Show me "all these apostate common killings"? Because, Iran, which has the strictest interpretation of this, hasn't killed an apostate for over 20-30+ years. That recent case was the first to come in a while, that's why it was high profile because of the rarity of such an event, but we find out that he wasn't persecuted for changing religion, it was another reason that was completly irrelevant.
-Persy
 
I'm not talking about state sanctioned Killings Persey.. It was never about that... I'm talking about murder by those who simply cannot accept people who leave Islam for Christianity.. Iran you say
 
I don't want to list them all... its quite extensive ( cue the 'unreliable sources' claim as ever from persy but i guess dates, names, court cases etc etc will all be ficticious) 
 
 
 
 
 
 
url=http://www.worthynews.com/11048-muslim-convert-to-christianity-missing-after-arrest&date=2011-11-01


Edited by Damo808 - 13 December 2011 at 3:03pm
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 3:05pm
Or the Christian terrorist attempt to shoot Obama, yet little coverage - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYaDeR9UucM
-Persey
 
  I don't know where you live... but coverage of the above was Global for about a week !!!



Edited by Damo808 - 13 December 2011 at 3:06pm
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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AdhamS  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote AdhamS Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by Damo808

Peace,

Show me "all these apostate common killings"? Because, Iran, which has the strictest interpretation of this, hasn't killed an apostate for over 20-30+ years. That recent case was the first to come in a while, that's why it was high profile because of the rarity of such an event, but we find out that he wasn't persecuted for changing religion, it was another reason that was completly irrelevant.
-Persy
 
I'm not talking about state sanctioned Killings Persey.. It was never about that... I'm talking about murder by those who simply cannot accept people who leave Islam for Christianity.. Iran you say
 
I don't want to list them all... its quite extensive ( cue the 'unreliable sources' claim as ever from persy but i guess dates, names, court cases etc etc will all be ficticious) 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
url=http://www.worthynews.com/11048-muslim-convert-to-christianity-missing-after-arrest&date=2011-11-01
In Islam you are not allowed to take matters in your own hands. What they did is against the teachings of Islam.Period
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Perseveranze
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Perseveranze Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 3:14pm



Peace,

Biased Islamaphobic website with no references.
 


Nothing to do with State run execution. It's silly to bring examples up of what some random man would do, this is simply based on "reported cases", whereas a Capital punishment is always going to be official and recognized by any state.

And if you really wanted to be fair in your comparison, you would compare it with all ages, especially when Church and state was not seperate - now Christianity is almost dead and you know it.

Also, we were discussing about Iran's court case, which is why there was so much western coverage on it because it was the first in 30 years.


Originally posted by Damo808

http://www.worthynews.com/9786-iran-court-pastor-to-be-executed-by-hanging


And we know this was a false alarm. Atleast these guys sited;

If confirmed, Nadarkhani would be the first Christian to be officially executed in Iran for religious reasons in 20 years.If confirmed, Nadarkhani would be the first Christian to be officially executed in Iran for religious reasons in 20 years.
 



Again, biased Christian site, with NO REFERENCES at all, it's like me writing up a plain piece of text saying "10 Muslims killed by Christians" and expect you to suddenly believe it.
 

Originally posted by Damo808

url=http://www.worthynews.com/11048-muslim-convert-to-christianity-missing-after-arrest&date=2011-11-01


Again, no references at all.

I think the point is clear, if this stuff really did happen, and it was known to happen, then the western media would never ignore it. And you know this extremely well.




Edited by Perseveranze - 13 December 2011 at 3:16pm
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 3:23pm

 LOL... OK Persy... i expected as much from you. Though i'd have guessed when they went online at the time dated... such stories would have had no credibility if no-one had any knowlege of them at the time... especially when using names of BOTH victims and perpetrators... But again thats too much like talking sense for you..

  Ohh and as i said I WASN'T  talking about state sanction killings for the second time... i never was... i'm talking about murder in general of 'apostates'....

out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 3:26pm
P.S The Western media have ignored oppression of Christian minorities in the ME for decades... this is common knowledge... then there's the silence over the attrocities in East Timor in the 70's... believe me Western media is no ally of Christian minorities... It only allies with Western interests
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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AdhamS  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote AdhamS Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by Damo808

P.S The Western media have ignored oppression of Christian minorities in the ME for decades... this is common knowledge... then there's the silence over the attrocities in East Timor in the 70's... believe me Western media is no ally of Christian minorities... It only allies with Western interests
Hmm...I just love how you brought East Timor which is no where near the Middle East in to this, BUT I will assume you mean the Islamic world. Egypt has the largest number of christians in the Middle East and its fairly known that the Copts control the economy as most of the are obsessed with Business. The richest Egyptian is actually  a Copt. What happened between Indonesia and East Timor is all about Politics and nationalism and not related to religion what so ever, read about the militias that committed the crimes first please :).
 
 
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Francophile Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 3:43pm
Its like someone joining the U.S. army and then decides to travel to..RUSSIA! Get the image?
 
I get it, but it's a bad analogy. Someone who joins the US Army signs on for a finite period of time, not a lifetime.
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by AdhamS

P.S The Western media have ignored oppression of Christian minorities in the ME for decades... this is common knowledge... then there's the silence over the attrocities in East Timor in the 70's... believe me Western media is no ally of Christian minorities... It only allies with Western interests
Originally posted by AdhamS

Hmm...I just love how you brought East Timor which is no where near the Middle East in to this, BUT I will assume you mean the Islamic world. Egypt has the largest number of christians in the Middle East and its fairly known that the Copts control the economy as most of the are obsessed with Business. The richest Egyptian is actually  a Copt. What happened between Indonesia and East Timor is all about Politics and nationalism and not related to religion what so ever, read about the militias that committed the crimes first please :).
 
 
 Golly gee i think i'm gonna die of embarassment...
 
Note however how i did state ..."then there's.. East Timor" differentiating the region FROM the ME...  So please spare me the patronising geography lesson.  Point is one was overwhelmingly Christian, but tiny and the other the largest Islamic nation on the planet... If as Persy infers that Christian minorities are aided by Western media.. then he is gravely mistaken..
 
 
[/QUOTE]

Edited by Damo808 - 13 December 2011 at 4:00pm
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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AdhamS  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote AdhamS Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2011 at 7:02pm
Originally posted by Damo808

Originally posted by AdhamS

P.S The Western media have ignored oppression of Christian minorities in the ME for decades... this is common knowledge... then there's the silence over the attrocities in East Timor in the 70's... believe me Western media is no ally of Christian minorities... It only allies with Western interests
Originally posted by AdhamS

Hmm...I just love how you brought East Timor which is no where near the Middle East in to this, BUT I will assume you mean the Islamic world. Egypt has the largest number of christians in the Middle East and its fairly known that the Copts control the economy as most of the are obsessed with Business. The richest Egyptian is actually  a Copt. What happened between Indonesia and East Timor is all about Politics and nationalism and not related to religion what so ever, read about the militias that committed the crimes first please :).
 
 
 Golly gee i think i'm gonna die of embarassment...
 
Note however how i did state ..."then there's.. East Timor" differentiating the region FROM the ME...  So please spare me the patronising geography lesson.  Point is one was overwhelmingly Christian, but tiny and the other the largest Islamic nation on the planet... If as Persy infers that Christian minorities are aided by Western media.. then he is gravely mistaken..
 
 
[/QUOTE]
Ok bad mistake from my side, my bad. My bad again I didnt find out till recently that there is more than one massacre BUT I do have something to criticize. You said that Western Media doesnt pay attention to the Christian minorities, check the Aftermath section : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Cruz_massacre
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