Hall of FameHall of Fame  Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp  chatChat
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
General Discussion
 Whyislam.org Forums : General : General Discussion
Message Icon Topic: Growth of Islam can be threatened by this!! Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 10 Next >>
Author Message
talib84  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 3984
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote talib84 Replybullet Posted: 15 December 2011 at 10:15am

Originally posted by Perse

Look how many so called "ex-muslims" who were "afraid of their life" suddenly start to insult the Prophet(pbuh) and Islam. All of a sudden, they become fearless. It's just a bunch of hoax to mislead people, which never works, except for those that are really gullable or Islamphobes.
 
Yeah interestingly they're not "afraid" when they're talking bad and insulting the religion...it's all a front IMO.
 
Originally posted by Perse

Especially Catholics, who as Damo has described, have this whole system to be accepted in the first place.
 
And it's not free, so expect to make a significant monetary investment when you convert, or perhaps a number of them lol. That could easily hinder people who are not 100% serious about Catholicism from converting to it.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Francophile  
Undergraduate
Undergraduate

Religion: Agnostic(Agnostic)
Posts: 1370
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Francophile Replybullet Posted: 15 December 2011 at 10:39am
so expect to make a significant monetary investment when you convert, or perhaps a number of them lol.
 
Huh?
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
talib84  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 3984
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote talib84 Replybullet Posted: 15 December 2011 at 10:42am
costs for religious instructions, schooling, etc....at churches i've been to, there are fees for baptisms, weddings, confirmations, communions, etc....all extremely neccesary parts of being Catholic.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Francophile  
Undergraduate
Undergraduate

Religion: Agnostic(Agnostic)
Posts: 1370
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Francophile Replybullet Posted: 15 December 2011 at 11:20am
well, okay, but 'significant sums'? I've never heard of paying to take communion, but what do I know?
 
Of course you pay for schools. How else could they exist? But no Catholic is forced to send their children to them.
 
I suspect that the Islamically oriented schools also charge tuition, yes? like Hebrew schools and Christian academies and so on.
 
And I believe you are not charged to take instruction--I will check this--but you might want to contribute something.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
AdhamS  
Freshman
Freshman

Location: Egypt
Religion: Islam(Sunni)
Posts: 77
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote AdhamS Replybullet Posted: 15 December 2011 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by Damo808

Given what's been said to by some Muslims on here who seem to endorse hostility against people who have a change of heart in life spiritualy I can only say that perhaps when someone is inducted into Islam that it is made clear to them that should they wish to leave it after embracing it regardless of how long or short... they may find themselves in mortal danger or on the recieving end of serious hostility....This for many may become apparent too late sadly.... True ...when many people take out contracts in life if they find they cannot maintain their side of the agreement they face penalties ....but such penalties are declared up front before a signature is obtained... When one takes their Shahadah...such harsh penalties are are not mentioned to them beforehand...This is deceptive... Those born into Islam however are signed up without the freewill of 'reverts'.
Here its more of a technical issue...lets say an American Muslim decides to leave Islam while he lives in Saudi Arabia....would he be executed? I dont think so as this will cause a huge uproar in the USA and severely damage the US- Saudi diplomatic relationship. So even if he left islam nothing would happen to him, thats my theory for why they dont warn him.
 
 You feeling me?
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Damo808  
Mureed
Mureed

Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4268
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 15 December 2011 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by talib84

costs for religious instructions, schooling, etc....at churches i've been to, there are fees for baptisms, weddings, confirmations, communions, etc....all extremely neccesary parts of being Catholic.
 
 Talib... the above is nonesense...  All the above is provided free.. except for private school's.... DONATIONS are different from fees and are usually given in marraige ceremonies and usually in the formof pocket money to the alter boys... Fees for communions confirmations and baptisms.....!!!!!  Talib.. where do you get this stuff ???


Edited by Damo808 - 15 December 2011 at 2:49pm
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Corinna  
Graduate
Graduate

Religion: Judaism(Orthodox)
Posts: 2184
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Corinna Replybullet Posted: 15 December 2011 at 3:51pm
OMG, are you serious?  That is such poor reasoning as to why a person who left a religion is not harmed, it doesn't matter where in the world it is.  The answer is either "yes" a person is harmed because it is law or "no" a person won't be because a person can leave, no harm done.   You lay it at the feet of politics, the politics of a foreign country for that matter.  I am astounded.

Originally posted by AdhamS

Here its more of a technical issue...lets say an American Muslim decides to leave Islam while he lives in Saudi Arabia....would he be executed? I dont think so as this will cause a huge uproar in the USA and severely damage the US- Saudi diplomatic relationship. So even if he left islam nothing would happen to him, thats my theory for why they dont warn him.
 
 You feeling me?
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
AdhamS  
Freshman
Freshman

Location: Egypt
Religion: Islam(Sunni)
Posts: 77
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote AdhamS Replybullet Posted: 15 December 2011 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by Corinna

OMG, are you serious?  That is such poor reasoning as to why a person who left a religion is not harmed, it doesn't matter where in the world it is.  The answer is either "yes" a person is harmed because it is law or "no" a person won't be because a person can leave, no harm done.   You lay it at the feet of politics, the politics of a foreign country for that matter.  I am astounded.

Originally posted by AdhamS

Here its more of a technical issue...lets say an American Muslim decides to leave Islam while he lives in Saudi Arabia....would he be executed? I dont think so as this will cause a huge uproar in the USA and severely damage the US- Saudi diplomatic relationship. So even if he left islam nothing would happen to him, thats my theory for why they dont warn him.
 
 You feeling me?
Hahahahaha, yes I am laying it at the feet of politics of another country. I never heard of a Western former muslim getting executed did you? It is really naive of you to neglect diplomatic relationships aside, especially when it comes to executing someone who comes from another country.
 
To cut it short YES a person can be harmed if he left the religion but practically we can only harm the natives (locals) and not foreigners. Dont tell me the US embassy in Saudi Arabia will just sit there and watch one of its citizens get executed and do nothing about it. If thats what you think, then I am astounded.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Seeking
Sophmore Member
Sophmore Member

Religion: Unknown(Unknown)
Posts: 286
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Seeking Replybullet Posted: 15 December 2011 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by hamayoun

We muslims do NOT lie about conversions.


Of course they don't.
Muslims don't lie any more than Christians, Hindus, atheists, etc.
People lie, though. Often it is people on the internet.

Originally posted by hamayoun

"True. Unfortunately, people who go to Islamic apologetic sites are more likely to be pre-disposed to hate Christians. Most people are going to believe what they want to believe"

I have never come across a single Islamic site which has the amount of hatred and distortion on it that a lot of Christian sites do. When we muslims talk about why we believe Christians are not on the straight path, we don't start lying about it. Big difference. There is a VERY systematic process to distort as much as possible, it is well organized and well financed. I just did a google for 'hadith hit miswak', and 99% of the sites that came up were anti Islamic.


Unfortunately, I strongly disagree. There are plenty of intolerant, even hateful, Muslim websites. And plenty from other religions. No religion can claim the moral high ground here.
In the same vein, I have no doubt your comment about a miswak is correct. However, when researching conversations here, I've seen the same tendency against shias, Christians and Jews in internet searches.

Originally posted by talib84

Originally posted by Seeking

True. Unfortunately, people who go to Islamic apologetic sites are more likely to be pre-disposed to hate Christians. Most people are going to believe what they want to believe.



In my experience, Muslims don't do it out of hate. They do it to try to reinforce their beliefs that their religion is the correct one.





In my experience, other religious people are not any different than Muslims.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Seeking
Sophmore Member
Sophmore Member

Religion: Unknown(Unknown)
Posts: 286
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Seeking Replybullet Posted: 15 December 2011 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by AdhamS


Reverts are increasing day by day no one can deny that and its pretty rational to find lots of videos about some of them on youtube even if they are many. Something you dont hear much about Muslims leaving Islam.


Most of the Muslims who change their faith,travel to western nations especially Canada and get the Canadian nationality.?


Where are most of these conversions taking place? What statistics are you drawing your conclusions from?

Originally posted by talib84

I did meet plenty of Nation of Islam or 5 Percenter Muslims who became Christians, but even they'll tell you that they weren't the real deal Muslims. I met a former 5 Percenter at my old church and he was explaining to me that most members of these groups like NOI are not really Muslims in the sense of Sunnis, Shias, etc. But as for traditional Muslims, I've never met a single one that became a Christian or Jew or any other religion besides a total disbeliever in religion.

There are plenty of former Christians who have embraced Islam, though. Some former Christians were scholars or pastors.


Saying that Muslims who have changed their religions were not really Muslims probably isn't the best argument to make.
"I've never met a single one that became a Christian or Jew or any other religion besides a total disbeliever in religion."
I do not find that surprising at all. I think just about any person of any religion could say that. Although I think it impossible for observers to judge another person's sincerity other than outside appearances. "Only Allah knows what is in a person's heart," as someone said in another thread.

No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Seeking
Sophmore Member
Sophmore Member

Religion: Unknown(Unknown)
Posts: 286
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Seeking Replybullet Posted: 15 December 2011 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by Perseveranze



Religion comes from the word religos (something like that), which is a latin word, it means binding.Such a word is never used anywhere in the Quran





The word "religion" is nowhere in the Quran? What about "Let there be no compulsion in religion, and other versions that contain the word? Thanks
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
talib84  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 3984
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote talib84 Replybullet Posted: 15 December 2011 at 5:02pm
Originally posted by Seeking

Originally posted by AdhamS


Reverts are increasing day by day no one can deny that and its pretty rational to find lots of videos about some of them on youtube even if they are many. Something you dont hear much about Muslims leaving Islam.


Most of the Muslims who change their faith,travel to western nations especially Canada and get the Canadian nationality.?


Where are most of these conversions taking place? What statistics are you drawing your conclusions from?

Originally posted by talib84

I did meet plenty of Nation of Islam or 5 Percenter Muslims who became Christians, but even they'll tell you that they weren't the real deal Muslims. I met a former 5 Percenter at my old church and he was explaining to me that most members of these groups like NOI are not really Muslims in the sense of Sunnis, Shias, etc. But as for traditional Muslims, I've never met a single one that became a Christian or Jew or any other religion besides a total disbeliever in religion.

 

There are plenty of former Christians who have embraced Islam, though. Some former Christians were scholars or pastors.


Saying that Muslims who have changed their religions were not really Muslims probably isn't the best argument to make.
"I've never met a single one that became a Christian or Jew or any other religion besides a total disbeliever in religion."
I do not find that surprising at all. I think just about any person of any religion could say that. Although I think it impossible for observers to judge another person's sincerity other than outside appearances. "Only Allah knows what is in a person's heart," as someone said in another thread.

 
Seeking, I don't want to sound disrespectful, rude, or insulting...but I don't think you're actually comprehending.
 
For this particular thread in this post, you kind of missed the whole point that I made...
 
The point is: When considering traditional Muslims, I have yet to meet one that has converted to Christianity.
 
I've met former NOI Muslims, etc., but that's not really an Islamic group. Even if they don't become Christians, they're still not considered Muslims.
 
My point was that traditional Muslims, ones who believe in Islam, the Quran, perform hajj, do their salah, etc. I have not seen ever in my whole life turn to Christianity. I've seen them become atheists and agnostics, but never Christian.
 
And it's not an "argument", it's a simple fact describing my experience.
 
Then you say that you don't find it surprising that I said:
 
"I've never met a single one that became a Christian or Jew or any other religion besides a total disbeliever in religion."
 
Your 'argument' is that you think any person of any religion could say that.
 
I agree, but in my experience, I've seen PLENTY of Chrisians convert to other religions, I'm not sure about Jews...some atheists become Christian or Muslim, and a BUNCH of agnostics becoming Christian.
 
And sincerity is not being judged; the religious beliefs professed are what I'm noting.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
talib84  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 3984
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote talib84 Replybullet Posted: 15 December 2011 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by Seeking

Originally posted by Perseveranze



Religion comes from the word religos (something like that), which is a latin word, it means binding.Such a word is never used anywhere in the Quran





The word "religion" is nowhere in the Quran? What about "Let there be no compulsion in religion, and other versions that contain the word? Thanks
 
That's an English translation you're mentioning. The Arabic word that a lot of Muslims usually use is "Din" or "Deen", and it means something different but could be translated roughly as religion (in at least one type of instance, it's translated as fate like the 'Day of Fate'), but doesn't translate exactly into religion. I'm not even sure if there is an exact match for 'religion' in Arabic.
 
Being that the Quran was revealed by God to Prophet Mohammad (saws) in Arabic, we rely on the Arabic and not on English, German, Spanish, etc.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
AdhamS  
Freshman
Freshman

Location: Egypt
Religion: Islam(Sunni)
Posts: 77
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote AdhamS Replybullet Posted: 15 December 2011 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by Seeking

Originally posted by AdhamS


Reverts are increasing day by day no one can deny that and its pretty rational to find lots of videos about some of them on youtube even if they are many. Something you dont hear much about Muslims leaving Islam.


Most of the Muslims who change their faith,travel to western nations especially Canada and get the Canadian nationality.?


Where are most of these conversions taking place? What statistics are you drawing your conclusions from?

Originally posted by talib84

I did meet plenty of Nation of Islam or 5 Percenter Muslims who became Christians, but even they'll tell you that they weren't the real deal Muslims. I met a former 5 Percenter at my old church and he was explaining to me that most members of these groups like NOI are not really Muslims in the sense of Sunnis, Shias, etc. But as for traditional Muslims, I've never met a single one that became a Christian or Jew or any other religion besides a total disbeliever in religion.

 

There are plenty of former Christians who have embraced Islam, though. Some former Christians were scholars or pastors.


Saying that Muslims who have changed their religions were not really Muslims probably isn't the best argument to make.
"I've never met a single one that became a Christian or Jew or any other religion besides a total disbeliever in religion."
I do not find that surprising at all. I think just about any person of any religion could say that. Although I think it impossible for observers to judge another person's sincerity other than outside appearances. "Only Allah knows what is in a person's heart," as someone said in another thread.

 
 
Most of my researches were based on topics written by journalists on websites like the BBC website. I have seen statistics from both sides but what really "convinces" me that muslim conversions is increasing by a huge rate is the covering of  pro-western news channels such as BBC on  this issue including anti-Islamic documentaries. I wonder why they didnt do some sort of cover to muslim conversions to christianity lets say in Africa? Sources I have checked claimed that millions of muslims become christians every year in africa, how on earth did this catch the attention of the western media I am not really sure. And if someone is going to tell me they are afraid to reveal their new faith, are you telling me that OUT OF ALL MILLIONS there is not a couple of people willing to have an interview with a news channel and have their identity concealed?
          I am trying to be non-biased here but western media neglecting this is pretty...confusing to me.


Edited by AdhamS - 15 December 2011 at 5:21pm
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 10 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums version 8.03
Copyright ©2001-2006 Web Wiz Guide
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed by members of the Whyislam Forum do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of the Whyislam Team, or any of its subsidiaries, or parent organizations.