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uuken  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote uuken Replybullet Topic: 3 Muslim men found guilty of hate crime in UK
    Posted: 22 January 2012 at 10:52am

On Friday, 1/20/12 3 British Muslim men found guilty of inciting hatred toward gay people by leaflets they were distributing  calling for execution of homosexuals.   The men defended themselves by saying they were simply following the teachings of Islam. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9028205/Muslim-men-first-to-be-found-guilty-of-sex-hate-crime.html  

Edited by uuken - 22 January 2012 at 10:54am
Religion: Unitarian Universalist          What is wanted is not the will to believe but the wish to find out which is its complete opposite. Bertrand Russell
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Perseveranze
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Perseveranze Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2012 at 11:15am
And if this was a Christian or someone, no one would've heard about it.


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uuken  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote uuken Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2012 at 11:33am
If the leaflets had simply said "we believe God said homosexuality is wrong and that it should not be celebrated" there would not have been a problem.
Religion: Unitarian Universalist          What is wanted is not the will to believe but the wish to find out which is its complete opposite. Bertrand Russell
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talib84  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote talib84 Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2012 at 4:06pm

Who in the US goes out of their way to read news in England? LOL jk.

I imagine that one made it all around the world. After all, it's yet another rare example that can be used to justify hatred against Muslims for their religion.
 
No group on this earth is hated for God more than Muslims. Social and physical martyrs, no other religious group separates itself from the world the way Muslims do, and no other religious group is persecuted and hated as much as Muslims.


Edited by talib84 - 22 January 2012 at 4:08pm
"To be sure, Jesus will come and will restore all things. But I tell you, Jesus has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished."
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uuken  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote uuken Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2012 at 4:17pm
I stumbled on the article while looking for the article another thread on here was referring to about christians using evil dirty tricks to trick Muslims into becoming apostates. 
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talib84  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote talib84 Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2012 at 4:32pm
But he provided you with a direct link lol. And the link was to a newspaper in his own country.
"To be sure, Jesus will come and will restore all things. But I tell you, Jesus has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished."
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uuken  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote uuken Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2012 at 4:58pm
What's the problem?  I don't understand what your issue is.  I read an article on a British newspaper on the intenet in my home in the United States.  Do you understand what the internet is?
Religion: Unitarian Universalist          What is wanted is not the will to believe but the wish to find out which is its complete opposite. Bertrand Russell
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2012 at 5:45pm
And if this was a Christian or someone, no one would've heard about it.
-Persy

I live in the UK..and believe me the antagonism between the gay lobby and Christian circles is never out the newspaper...Its just that no-one from the Christian perspective is calling for executions. If such individuals cannot accept the rule of law within a country they are free to dwell in countries which support their viewpoint by such laws...


Who in the US goes out of their way to read news in England? LOL jk.
-Talib

I donno about the US..but British journalism is cited here very often by ppl from all over on many issues which don't always relate to matters that are relevent to the UK only...
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Perseveranze
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Perseveranze Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2012 at 6:01pm
Originally posted by Damo808

And if this was a Christian or someone, no one would've heard about it.
-Persy

I live in the UK..and believe me the antagonism between the gay lobby and Christian circles is never out the newspaper...Its just that no-one from the Christian perspective is calling for executions. If such individuals cannot accept the rule of law within a country they are free to dwell in countries which support their viewpoint by such laws...


Who in the US goes out of their way to read news in England? LOL jk.
-Talib

I donno about the US..but British journalism is cited here very often by ppl from all over on many issues which don't always relate to matters that are relevent to the UK only...



I didn't quite hear much about this, did you? Unless you believe that Christians in UK are rightoues compared to those in the US.


Philadelphia Man Blames Bible for Stoning Death

by Candace Chellew-Hodge (Religious Dispatch)

A 28-year-old Philadelphia says he stoned a 70-year-old friend to death “because the Bible refers to stoning homosexuals.” John Thomas said he killed Murray Seidman with
stones inside a sock after the older man made “unwanted sexual advances.” From the APreport:

According to the complaint, “John Thomas stated that he read in the Old Testament that homosexuals should be stoned in certain situations. The answer John Thomas received from his prayers was to put an end to the victim’s life. John Thomas stated that he struck the victim approximately 10 times in the head. After the final blow, John Thomas made sure the victim was dead.”

But the full story reveals that Thomas’ “the Bible made me do it” excuse may just be that. Thomas had another, far older, motive for the killing: money. He was the sole heir to Seidman’s estate.

Yet Thomas’ excuse that the Bible supposedly sanctioned his horrific act should not be taken as a reason to dismiss the Bible wholesale. Gay blogger John Aravosis — like Thomas, not a theologian – agrees with the confessed killer that the Bible orders death for gay people and wonders: “How Christians get away with selling the Bible with those quotes still inside is beyond me.”

Both Thomas and Aravosis are right that the Bible (Leviticus 20:13, to be precise) prescribes death for homosexual acts between two men (never between two women because women, being property, were pretty much ignored). However, Thomas is incorrect about the method of death. The Bible never mentions stoning gay men.

Both arguments, though, miss the point. Bibles don’t kill people, ignorant Bible readers kill people.

Aravosis may find some solace from theologian Stanley Hauerwas who wrote a few years ago in his book Unleashing the Scripture, “The Bible is not and should not be accessible to merely anyone, but rather it should only be made available to those who have undergone the hard discipline of existing as part of God’s people.”

Which is to say that many people, like Thomas, who justify their conduct with a single quote from the Bible frequently don’t know what they are talking about. When one reads the Bible and takes the English version at face (and literal) value, they do terrible violence to the text. The Bible is not meant to be a book of answers where you can just open it up and find out exactly what to do next. It is not a Ouija board or a divining rod. Instead, it is a collection of writings from wildly different times, cultures, and points of view. In fact, it contradicts itself from book to book, and sometimes from chapter to chapter. To say, “the Bible says …” as if it settles an argument once and for all is a terribly naïve way to read a very complicated text. Instead, one must be trained to actually read the Bible in a responsible manner – preferably, as Hauerwas states, within a community dedicated to taking the Bible seriously.

As Jennifer Wright Knust writes in her latest book, Unprotected Texts, “The only way the Bible can be regarded as straightforward and simple is if no one bothers to read it. The Bible was not a collection of policy statements that had to be obeyed or a weapon designed to enforce particular views about morality, but an invitation to think about who God might be and what it means to be human.”









Edited by Perseveranze - 22 January 2012 at 6:02pm
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talib84  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote talib84 Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2012 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by uuken

What's the problem?  I don't understand what your issue is.  I read an article on a British newspaper on the intenet in my home in the United States.  Do you understand what the internet is?
 
No problem...just curious.
"To be sure, Jesus will come and will restore all things. But I tell you, Jesus has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished."
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talib84  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote talib84 Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2012 at 6:40pm
Originally posted by Perseveranze

Originally posted by Damo808

And if this was a Christian or someone, no one would've heard about it.
-Persy

I live in the UK..and believe me the antagonism between the gay lobby and Christian circles is never out the newspaper...Its just that no-one from the Christian perspective is calling for executions. If such individuals cannot accept the rule of law within a country they are free to dwell in countries which support their viewpoint by such laws...


Who in the US goes out of their way to read news in England? LOL jk.
-Talib

I donno about the US..but British journalism is cited here very often by ppl from all over on many issues which don't always relate to matters that are relevent to the UK only...



I didn't quite hear much about this, did you? Unless you believe that Christians in UK are rightoues compared to those in the US.


Philadelphia Man Blames Bible for Stoning Death

by Candace Chellew-Hodge (Religious Dispatch)

A 28-year-old Philadelphia says he stoned a 70-year-old friend to death “because the Bible refers to stoning homosexuals.” John Thomas said he killed Murray Seidman with
stones inside a sock after the older man made “unwanted sexual advances.” From the APreport:

According to the complaint, “John Thomas stated that he read in the Old Testament that homosexuals should be stoned in certain situations. The answer John Thomas received from his prayers was to put an end to the victim’s life. John Thomas stated that he struck the victim approximately 10 times in the head. After the final blow, John Thomas made sure the victim was dead.”

But the full story reveals that Thomas’ “the Bible made me do it” excuse may just be that. Thomas had another, far older, motive for the killing: money. He was the sole heir to Seidman’s estate.

Yet Thomas’ excuse that the Bible supposedly sanctioned his horrific act should not be taken as a reason to dismiss the Bible wholesale. Gay blogger John Aravosis — like Thomas, not a theologian – agrees with the confessed killer that the Bible orders death for gay people and wonders: “How Christians get away with selling the Bible with those quotes still inside is beyond me.”

Both Thomas and Aravosis are right that the Bible (Leviticus 20:13, to be precise) prescribes death for homosexual acts between two men (never between two women because women, being property, were pretty much ignored). However, Thomas is incorrect about the method of death. The Bible never mentions stoning gay men.

Both arguments, though, miss the point. Bibles don’t kill people, ignorant Bible readers kill people.

Aravosis may find some solace from theologian Stanley Hauerwas who wrote a few years ago in his book Unleashing the Scripture, “The Bible is not and should not be accessible to merely anyone, but rather it should only be made available to those who have undergone the hard discipline of existing as part of God’s people.”

Which is to say that many people, like Thomas, who justify their conduct with a single quote from the Bible frequently don’t know what they are talking about. When one reads the Bible and takes the English version at face (and literal) value, they do terrible violence to the text. The Bible is not meant to be a book of answers where you can just open it up and find out exactly what to do next. It is not a Ouija board or a divining rod. Instead, it is a collection of writings from wildly different times, cultures, and points of view. In fact, it contradicts itself from book to book, and sometimes from chapter to chapter. To say, “the Bible says …” as if it settles an argument once and for all is a terribly naïve way to read a very complicated text. Instead, one must be trained to actually read the Bible in a responsible manner – preferably, as Hauerwas states, within a community dedicated to taking the Bible seriously.

As Jennifer Wright Knust writes in her latest book, Unprotected Texts, “The only way the Bible can be regarded as straightforward and simple is if no one bothers to read it. The Bible was not a collection of policy statements that had to be obeyed or a weapon designed to enforce particular views about morality, but an invitation to think about who God might be and what it means to be human.”







 
What about those Christians just over the last few weeks who were visiting from Germany and killed a boy for believing he was a witch? lol
"To be sure, Jesus will come and will restore all things. But I tell you, Jesus has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished."
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talib84  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote talib84 Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2012 at 6:44pm

Point is, every single religion has their kooks.

"To be sure, Jesus will come and will restore all things. But I tell you, Jesus has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished."
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uuken  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote uuken Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2012 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by talib84

Point is, every single religion has their kooks.

So, the 3 Muslim men who were distributing pamphlets saying gay should be executed are kooks?  Were they acting in accordance with the teachings of Islam? or not?
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Francophile Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2012 at 7:55pm
From Islam QA
 

al-Tirmidhi (1456), Abu Dawood (4462)and Ibn Maajah (2561) narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.”. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi. 

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