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waheed1  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote waheed1 Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2012 at 12:05pm
It's hard to quote on mobile phone typing, So I hope you can figure out context.

I know about holy spirit as quoted above, from years of interaction with Christians,as well as deep study of Christianity and religion in general.

I did not say worship of holy spirit is not big deal, only that Quran focuses on main issues. As another example, it says Jesus was not crucified, buy it doesn't focus on that. Rather, Quran spends more time refuting the idea Jesus or any man is divine.

Just because jalalayn made mistake in their tafseer. ; that doesn't mean that Qur'an teaches what The tafseer assumed.

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ishammad7  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ishammad7 Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2012 at 1:10pm
The verse spoke about the attribution of a son and the association of others with Allah in Lordship (Godhead) (ascribing partners).

I think this is the bottom line, whether the concept is explained by a very simple man, or by very learned man who dedicated his life studying and teaching divinity,and who chooses his words very carefully, (and may even tell you after,that the words do not actually mean what they say).

Since some Christians concluded that the Quran misunderstands the Christian Trinity.

Just in case you are questioned about your trinity in the day of judgement, you need to clarify who exactly did you associate with Allah in the Lordship, and explain the son-ship (son of God, mother of God, ...) related issues.

Edited by ishammad7 - 22 November 2012 at 1:14pm
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The_Rock
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2012 at 1:26pm
I think the issue is our different approaches to religion.

Christians approach religion as a matter of faith.

Muslims believe that religion is a matter of intellect.

The christian testament of faith starts with "I believe..."
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Burninglight  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Burninglight Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2012 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by ishammad7

The verse spoke about the attribution of a son and the association of others with Allah in Lordship (Godhead) (ascribing partners).

I think this is the bottom line, whether the concept is explained by a very simple man, or by very learned man who dedicated his life studying and teaching divinity,and who chooses his words very carefully, (and may even tell you after,that the words do not actually mean what they say).

Since some Christians concluded that the Quran misunderstands the Christian Trinity. There is not doubt the Quran has grave misconceptions of the trinity. I have proved this using the Quran. It is evident on how Allah questions Jesus. I have no fear of having to explain or clarify anything to an ignorant god. Show me where the Quran is against the trinity as Christians understand Him to be
Just in case you are questioned about your trinity in the day of judgement, you need to clarify who exactly did you associate with Allah in the Lordship, and explain the son-ship (son of God, mother of God, ...) related issues.
No one will question me about this, but I feel like you are questioning Christians on it now. The son of God doesn't mean God seered Jesus sexually like a man does a woman. This is a misconception Muhammad had about what Christians believe and many Muslim have today. Next, Mary was the mother of Jesus. Mary was blessed among woman. She was and is not the mother of God. She was the biological mother of the son of man not the son of God who is the word of God incarnated. Mary was a sinner like very one less and no where is she to be prayed to. She was simply blessed among woman to have been chosen by God to bear the savior of the world.
Now, Muslim will have to explain why they neglected so great a salvation. This time may come sooner than you think.


Edited by Burninglight - 22 November 2012 at 8:20pm
"Christ is not valued at all unless He is valued above all."
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SalaamSalam  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote SalaamSalam Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2012 at 10:04pm

O People! When you approach the Quran, do it intelligently.

Let me repeat - the compatibility problems between the Quran and the Bible stem from the fact the Bible is corrupted. The original Gospel (in Hebrew) has been hidden by the Jews, and they discreetly (as usual) messed it up beyond repair and gave it to you in Greek. As if that was not enough, your “scholars” continued to corrupt it even more!

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkZmcedH-sE

Check this clip where the Jew said “We killed Jesus and we are proud of it”. These are the people who gave you the Bible! Have you seen any Muslim say something like this about Jesus?

37 And it was not [possible] for this Qur'an to be produced by any other than Allah, but [it is] a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of the former Scripture (Torah, Gospel), about which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds. 

 38 Or do they say [about the Prophet], "He invented it?" Say, "Then bring forth a Chapter like it and call upon [for assistance] whomever you can besides Allah, if you should be truthful." (Jonah 10:37-38).

Continue reading it here: http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=10&translator=29&mac=

…and I bear witness that the Messiah, Jesus son of Maryam, is a messenger of God...
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Burninglight  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Burninglight Replybullet Posted: 23 November 2012 at 12:32am
Originally posted by SalaamSalam

O People! When you approach the Quran, do it intelligently. I do that is why I don't choose Islam

Let me repeat - the compatibility problems between the Quran and the Bible stem from the fact the Bible is corrupted. The original Gospel (in Hebrew) has been hidden by the Jews, and they discreetly (as usual) messed it up beyond repair and gave it to you in Greek. As if that was not enough, your “scholars” continued to corrupt it even more!

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkZmcedH-sE

Check this clip where the Jew said “We killed Jesus and we are proud of it”. These are the people who gave you the Bible! Have you seen any Muslim say something like this about Jesus? Those are who rejected their king and now the gentiles have been grafted in.

37 And it was not [possible] for this Qur'an to be produced by any other than Allah, but [it is] a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of the former Scripture (Torah, Gospel), about which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.  Says who? The Best of deceivers?

 38 Or do they say [about the Prophet], "He invented it?" Say, "Then bring forth a Chapter like it and call upon [for assistance] whomever you can besides Allah, if you should be truthful." (Jonah 10:37-38).This verse is ridiculous. Bring forth a chp like the Bible, Shake Spear or the "Old man in the sea"

When you cut down the Bible you cut down the Quran and Muhammad who never said the Bible was corrupted. You also cut down God by saying man's power to corrupt is greater than God's power to preserve. If you need to suspect anything, do it to the Quran, becausae Uthman burned your originals. We can prove where there are translational errors and interpolations in the Bible. You cannot with the Quran, because the evidence was burned.
The torah and gospel is exactly the same as when Allah told Muhammad he sent it to him. If it got corrupted it would have had to been after Muhammad's death, but go ahead pove when, where, how and the motive. If you cannot, stop spouting out stuff you hear others say without doing your own research. Back up what you say or don't say it!

Edited by Burninglight - 23 November 2012 at 12:39am
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SalaamSalam  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote SalaamSalam Replybullet Posted: 23 November 2012 at 5:21pm

This is ridiculous and you know it. The Quran contain materials not found in The Bible. It could not have been copied from the previous scriptures. I told you again and again but your brain doesn’t grasp it. If Uthman (or anybody) burns copies of the Quran, that will not erase it from the memory of the believers. Which explains why we have the same, single, unique Quran for 1400 years.

  1 Blessed is He who sent down the Criterion upon His Servant (Muhammad) that he may be to the worlds a warner. 

 2 He to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and who has not taken a son and has not had a partner in dominion and has created each thing and determined it with [precise] determination. 

 3 But they have taken besides Him gods which create nothing, while they are created, and possess not for themselves any harm or benefit and possess not [power to cause] death or life or resurrection. 

 4 And those who disbelieve say, "This [Qur'an] is not except a falsehood he (Muhammad) invented, and other people assisted him in it." But they have committed an injustice and a lie. 

 5 And they say, "Legends of the former peoples which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon." 

 6 Say, [O Muhammad], "It has been revealed by He who knows [every] secret within the heavens and the earth. Indeed, He is ever Forgiving and Merciful."   

http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=25&translator=29&mac=

…and I bear witness that the Messiah, Jesus son of Maryam, is a messenger of God...
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The_Rock
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 23 November 2012 at 5:49pm
I have concluded that the Quran story is highly mytholygized.

Its probably best that non-muslims not put too much stock in it.
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Burninglight  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Burninglight Replybullet Posted: 23 November 2012 at 6:25pm
Originally posted by The_Rock

I have concluded that the Quran story is highly mytholygized.

Its probably best that non-muslims not put too much stock in it.
It has its roots in pagan preislamic history. It has a corrupted view of Christianity. Since Muhammad couldn't read or write, he did not realize that the stories he heard about the Bible weren't totally accurate.
 
He thought, for instance, that Mary was part of the trinity, and this is reflected in the way Allah questions Jesus in the Quran. He recites by saying "Did you say take you and your mother for two gods besides me?" That makes up the three that Allah say say not three about.
 
Allah challenges people to find a discrepancy with the Quran. I accept Allah's challenge, because I believe his ignorance of the Christian trinity is evidence that God was not the author to the Quran. Since he is not then Muhammad is still waiting for his prophet passport. IMO, the chances of him finding it are less than finding a black cat in a large dark cluttered room that isn't there.


Edited by Burninglight - 23 November 2012 at 6:31pm
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Janet Waters  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Janet Waters Replybullet Posted: 26 November 2012 at 10:06pm
Originally posted by Burninglight

Originally posted by Janet Waters

Originally posted by Burninglight

Originally posted by Janet Waters

You are the only one posting on this subject describing anything close to this Universal Salvation of which you keep mentioning. You are the only one who has discussed this. It seems as though you are arguing with yourself.
You mean it seems that way when I am posting to you?
You are just looking for reasons to argue even when many people have proved that you misunderstand the scriptures.
Plz, give one example that proved I misunderstood Scripture


I would have to quote every post you have made ....each post clearly shows that you do not understand holy writ but you use verses only to justify what you want them to mean.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Burninglight Replybullet Posted: 26 November 2012 at 11:30pm
Originally posted by Janet Waters

Originally posted by Burninglight

Originally posted by Janet Waters

Originally posted by Burninglight

Originally posted by Janet Waters

You are the only one posting on this subject describing anything close to this Universal Salvation of which you keep mentioning. You are the only one who has discussed this. It seems as though you are arguing with yourself.
You mean it seems that way when I am posting to you?
You are just looking for reasons to argue even when many people have proved that you misunderstand the scriptures.
Plz, give one example that proved I misunderstood Scripture


I would have to quote every post you have made ....each post clearly shows that you do not understand holy writ but you use verses only to justify what you want them to mean.
That is not an example and just a lame cop out. I can easily say the same about you, but I have been specific with how you err not knowing the Scripture and the power of them. You do not know the same Jesus I do. Your Mormon jesus is a different Jesus than the one in the Bible just as Islam has a different jesus. You just quote Scriptures in an attempt to justify Mormonism, but you don't even realize it is not working. Your mind is made up, and you don't want to be confused with the truth.
You are loved


Edited by Burninglight - 26 November 2012 at 11:36pm
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Janet Waters  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Janet Waters Replybullet Posted: 01 December 2012 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by Burninglight

That is not an example and just a lame cop out. I can easily say the same about you, but I have been specific with how you err not knowing the Scripture and the power of them. You do not know the same Jesus I do. Your Mormon jesus is a different Jesus than the one in the Bible just as Islam has a different jesus. You just quote Scriptures in an attempt to justify Mormonism, but you don't even realize it is not working. Your mind is made up, and you don't want to be confused with the truth.
You are loved


Everything we have been discussing is an example....call it a cop-out if you will. I would have to restate EVERY communication....but you really don't want to hear those things again. Several of us have been giving these "examples" until we have all been blue in the face, yet you disregard anything you hear by drowning it out by repeating your dysfunctional ideas about holy writ.

Basically you plug your ears and yell at the top of your lungs so you can't hear anything that discredits your chosen view that gives you your self esteem. More of the same is not going to change anything--- it only reinforces your lack of dealing with reality. This must be the way you deal with "sensitive" subjects within all your personal relationships.

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Burninglight Replybullet Posted: 01 December 2012 at 11:56pm
Originally posted by Janet Waters

Originally posted by Burninglight

That is not an example and just a lame cop out. I can easily say the same about you, but I have been specific with how you err not knowing the Scripture and the power of them. You do not know the same Jesus I do. Your Mormon jesus is a different Jesus than the one in the Bible just as Islam has a different jesus. You just quote Scriptures in an attempt to justify Mormonism, but you don't even realize it is not working. Your mind is made up, and you don't want to be confused with the truth.
You are loved


Everything we have been discussing is an example....call it a cop-out if you will. I would have to restate EVERY communication....but you really don't want to hear those things again. Several of us have been giving these "examples" until we have all been blue in the face, yet you disregard anything you hear by drowning it out by repeating your dysfunctional ideas about holy writ.

Basically you plug your ears and yell at the top of your lungs so you can't hear anything that discredits your chosen view that gives you your self esteem. More of the same is not going to change anything--- it only reinforces your lack of dealing with reality. This must be the way you deal with "sensitive" subjects within all your personal relationships.
Stick to the subject sister. There is no reason for you to go off topic just to be insulting. You are taking this into a personal arena and that is uncalled for. If you don't believe me, ask a moderator.  
You say, "we" who is "we?" Speak for yourself. Saying "we" doesn't make your arguement any stronger. What I have been sharing with you is Scriptural, and I know exactly what I am talking about. Jesus shows me in the Scripture that those that hear me, hear him, and those that reject what I share, reject Him, and those that reject Jesus reject the father who sent Him.
 
The only shouting I have been doing is shouting for you to get out of the burning building, but the windows are shut and you cannot hear me, so I try shouting louder. It is getting to the point that I am losing my voice and will not be able to shout at all let alone loud enough for you to hear.
Jesus said His sheep hear His voice. I hear His voice and you don't, because you are in a cult that is trying hard to be accepted as part of traditional Christianity. It will never happen.
 
You believe that God was a man. I don't believe God was ever a man. Even RCC and Muslims don't believe this.
 
When you say we. I know your not referring to Muslims or RCC. You believe in the "Adam god." You believe unscriptural things such as: "As man is God once was and as God is man may become" and you believe that Jesus is the spiritual brother of the satan. I have told you this before, but you avoid commenting on it, because it exposes Mormonism.
 
Instead of personally attacking me and then denying that you do it, address the issues that make the church of the Latter Day Saints a powerful cult!
 
Paul said to the effect, I will hear nothing from you but Jesus Christ Crucified. The Holy Writ you speak of goes where angels fear to thread!
 
You are loved


Edited by Burninglight - 03 December 2012 at 5:56pm
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Janet Waters  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Janet Waters Replybullet Posted: 08 December 2012 at 12:19am
Originally posted by Burninglight

You say, "we" who is "we?" Speak for yourself. Saying "we" doesn't fmake your arguement any stronger.


What the three of us have been saying to you.

Originally posted by Burninglight

What I have been sharing with you is Scriptural, and I know exactly what I am talking about.


No....what you have been sharing is your interpretation of what is "scriptural." An interpretation that has been shown as off-kilter by three different people.


Originally posted by Burninglight

YJesus shows me in the Scripture that those that hear me, hear him, and those that reject what I share, reject Him, and those that reject Jesus reject the father who sent Him.


And once again.....you discredit by contradicting yourself over and over. In order for "Jesus to show you anything" as you say....you have to have your Calling and Election Made Sure. You say that you have....but then when asked how you know you have....you reply that you know by faith (believing without seeing). This is not how having one's Calling and Election MADE SURE happens. But you wouldn't KNOW that since you only BELIEVE that. Which shows you have just discredited yourself once again. You know....the more you put out there just shows that you lack the information to even have the conversation that you are trying to have.   It is very hard to take you seriously.....I'm the only one left that will even engage in a conversation with you because of this.

Originally posted by Burninglight

The only shouting I have been doing is shouting for you to get out of the burning building, but the windows are shut and you cannot hear me, so I try shouting louder. It is getting to the point that I am losing my voice and will not be able to shout at all let alone loud enough for you to hear. Jesus said His sheep hear His voice. I hear His voice and you don't, because you are in a cult that is trying hard to be accepted as part of traditional Christianity. It will never happen.


Save your voice. Jesus said that His Sheep KNOW HIS Voice. You don't KNOW....you only BELIEVE that you know. There is a difference between KNOWING and BELIEVING (faith without an ASSURITY). This is not what "MADE SURE" is about. It takes faith to make the first step to a long journey.... but faith is not the last step after one receives an ASSURITY. Made Sure means that God comes out of His hiding place and reveals Himself and continues to tutor an individual until this individual proves himself FAITHFUL to receive this REWARD. (Which thing you don't even BELIEVE IN....revealing you don't even understand enough to even try to say this has happened---let alone have this conversation as though you did).

John 10:4
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

Originally posted by Burninglight

You believe that God was a man. I don't believe God was ever a man. Even RCC and Muslims don't believe this.


God is not another species....He is not foreign. God is our HEAVENLY FATHER....and we are created in HIS IMAGE....patterned after him....just like sons and daughters are.


Originally posted by Burninglight

When you say we. I know your not referring to Muslims or RCC. You believe in the "Adam god."


The "Adam God Theory" is a false doctrine created by Anti-Mormons ascibing it to Brigham Young. However this theory was of THEIR making...not of Brigham Young's making. They took Brigham out of context and then "went to town" with this new false theory. This theory was never taught over the pulpit and it was never recorded and signed as a "doctrine" that Brigham espoused or believed in. People loved to put words into Brigham's mouth and then try to pass them off as authoritative LDS doctrines.


Originally posted by Burninglight

You believe unscriptural things such as: "As man is God once was and as God is man may become" and you believe that Jesus is the spiritual brother of the satan. I have told you this before, but you avoid commenting on it, because it exposes Mormonism.


We are not the first ones to believe this....it was actually taught in some sects of Judahism. There is a difference between a "spiritual brother" and a "spirit brother". You need to educate yourself before you can have the tools to comprehend what you are trying to say here. And it is important to remember that you are not talking to a Trinitarian.... as you attempt to question what I believe or do not believe.

Originally posted by Burninglight

Instead of personally attacking me and then denying that you do it, address the issues that make the church of the Latter Day Saints a powerful cult!


You make it very clear that you do not know the difference between discrediting ideas and demonizing a person because of their ideas. Anyone who has to pull out the "Cult Card" only proves that you cannot see that you are held hostage by your own bias.

Originally posted by Burninglight

Paul said to the effect, I will hear nothing from you but Jesus Christ Crucified. The Holy Writ you speak of goes where angels fear to thread!


1 Corinthians 2:2
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Paul's epistle to the erroring Corinthians...teaching them of the mystery of God.....to the Corinthians it was a mystery (for it had not been REVEALED) but this "mystery of God" had been REVEALED to the Apostles (who were God's authorized messengers) who held Priesthood to speak in the name of The Lord. You.....are not an Apostle...yet you try to say...that you are....by your comments by saying...."Jesus shows me in the Scripture that those that hear me, hear him, and those that reject what I share, reject Him, and those that reject Jesus reject the father who sent Him."

To this....I have to say.....blasphemy!! You are not an Apostle but RATHER you are more like the erroring Corinthians of whom the "Mystery of God" has NOT been REVEALED.




Edited by Janet Waters - 08 December 2012 at 12:25am
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