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a well wisher  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote a well wisher Replybullet Topic: Earth Hour
    Posted: 23 March 2013 at 7:27am
Saturday, March 23 at 8:30 p.m. your local time
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
La ilaha ill-Allah, Muhammadur Rasulullah
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 28 March 2013 at 7:59am
Originally posted by a well wisher

Saturday, March 23 at 8:30 p.m. your local time
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


 I'm not buying
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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a well wisher  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote a well wisher Replybullet Posted: 01 May 2013 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by Damo808

 
 I'm not buying
 
 
Sorry I missed this post brother Damo.
 
Why is that?Human Achievement Hour?
 
 
 


Edited by a well wisher - 01 May 2013 at 7:40pm
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 22 May 2013 at 7:15am
 
Sorry I missed this post brother Damo.
 
Why is that?Human Achievement Hour?

-Well wisher


Why what ? My reservations about Earth Hour ?
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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a well wisher  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote a well wisher Replybullet Posted: 23 May 2013 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by Damo808

 


Why what ? My reservations about Earth Hour ?
 
Yes brother Damo
 
Sorry for not being clear.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 24 May 2013 at 9:10am
Well wisher..

See for yourself.... No not some wack-job conspiracy theory either.


 Remember also  how the Univeristy of East Anglia UK got caught red handed back in mid 09  cooking the books so to speak...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6679082/Climate-change-this-is-the-worst-scientific-scandal-of-our-
generation.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1246661/New-scandal-Climate-Gate-scientists-accused-hiding-data-global-warming-sceptics.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2010/feb/02/climate-change-hacked-emails

The following controversial documentary was aired on mainstream UK TV Ch4
 years before the above articals broke .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtevF4B4RtQ


 Motive ???

out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote botak Replybullet Posted: 24 May 2013 at 3:24pm
Do people still believe that climate change isn't happening? I mean, stuff the scientific debate, just look at the objective, directly observable climate changes that have happened over the past 20 years. I don't need data, I just need my eyes.

Climate change is happening, no doubt, the question is natural or man-made?

Ultimately, it shouldn't matter to the way we respond. Even if there is a 10% probability of climate change being man made, that is enough for us to have to react.

Climate change is never discussed in the correct way, you do not have to prove climate change is man made before you react, you have to prove a possibility that climate change is man made. The debate shouldn't be 'is climate change man made' it should be 'what is the probability that climate change is man made?'

You buy home insurance, health insurance and car insurance, not because you think you will use it, but because you can't afford to take the chance that you won't need to use it.

No one can say 100% climate change isn't man made, so we need to take precautions until it can be proved either way, because if we are wrong the cost will be greater than we can imagine (and will be passed on to our kids, grandkids, etc.)

In my opinion, it's probably like the tobacco debate in the 70s, lots of PR money from vested interests is being used to 'discredit' the scientific consensus. Probably, in future times, we will see it like the tobacco causes cancer debate and find it amazing that people managed to muddy the debate for so long.

But ultimately, it doesn't matter that the scientific debate is 'inconclusive', it doesn't even matter if the vast scientific consensus is wrong. You don't need a 100% probability before you act you need a 5% probability before it starts to be in your best interests to act. You weren't wrong to buy health insurance even if you don't get cancer after all.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 24 May 2013 at 11:00pm
yes, but what reaction is appropriate , botak?

I like this idea - e-cat rossi.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 25 May 2013 at 7:38am
Originally posted by The_Rock

yes, but what reaction is appropriate , botak?

I like this idea - e-cat rossi.



 Introduce global taxes on carbon footprints on farmers and industry... which btw goes nowhere towards combating the phenomenon but does go someway towards  devastating emerging markets and economies.
 
 
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 25 May 2013 at 12:36pm
Don't misunderstand me... i'm all for cleaner ways of doing things, i'd love to one day have a practical and eco friendly alternative to oil...
Thats practical..

But when it comes to me having to pay the difference of about £100 + every year extra on my road tax as a penalization  for having an engine larger than a 1100 cc or aircraft duty for a flight etc etc etc.. forgive my skepticism.
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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botak
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote botak Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2013 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by Damo808


Originally posted by The_Rock

yes, but what reaction is appropriate , botak?

I like this idea - e-cat rossi.
 Introduce global taxes on carbon footprints on farmers and industry... which btw goes nowhere towards combating the phenomenon but does go someway towards  devastating emerging markets and economies.    


The effects of global warming will have a far worse effect on the developing world than carbon taxes.

No idea what the solution is though, population growth needs to be checked which won't happen, big business still calls the shots in the developed world, corruption is endemic in the developing world, economic competition stops people from taking the initiative, can't say I'm optimistic,,,
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a well wisher  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote a well wisher Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2013 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by Damo808

Well wisher..

See for yourself.... No not some wack-job conspiracy theory either.


 Remember also  how the Univeristy of East Anglia UK got caught red handed back in mid 09  cooking the books so to speak...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6679082/Climate-change-this-is-the-worst-scientific-scandal-of-our-
generation.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1246661/New-scandal-Climate-Gate-scientists-accused-hiding-data-global-warming-sceptics.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2010/feb/02/climate-change-hacked-emails

The following controversial documentary was aired on mainstream UK TV Ch4
 years before the above articals broke .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtevF4B4RtQ


 Motive ???

 
Politics:)
 
Climate change is a complex phenomenon brother Damo but as individuals we can do our part no matter what the motives for others may be.As Wendell Berry puts it ....Cultivate your corner of the world. You grow your garden; your garden grows you.
 
 
I haven't seen the Ch4 documentary.Will do Insha Allah.I have heard about the controversy though... it is just one thing among many...
 
For example if you would take a look at these links....
 
 
 
The goal of Skeptical Science is to explain what peer reviewed science has to say about global warming. When you peruse the many arguments of global warming skeptics, a pattern emerges. Skeptic arguments tend to focus on narrow pieces of the puzzle while neglecting the broader picture. For example, focus on Climategate emails neglects the full weight of scientific evidence for man-made global warming. Concentrating on a few growing glaciers ignores the world wide trend of accelerating glacier shrinkage. Claims of global cooling fail to realise the planet as a whole is still accumulating heat. This website presents the broader picture by explaining the peer reviewed scientific literature.

Often, the reason for disbelieving in man-made global warming seem to be political rather than scientific. Eg - "it's all a liberal plot to spread socialism and destroy capitalism". As one person put it, "the cheerleaders for doing something about global warming seem to be largely the cheerleaders for many causes of which I disapprove". However, what is causing global warming is a purely scientific question. Skeptical Science removes the politics from the debate by concentrating solely on the science.

 
 
Climate Change Fake? World Has Never Been Hotter
 
 
(About 8 mins)
 
 
 
 
 
La ilaha ill-Allah, Muhammadur Rasulullah
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a well wisher  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote a well wisher Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2013 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by botak

Do people still believe that climate change isn't happening? I mean, stuff the scientific debate, just look at the objective, directly observable climate changes that have happened over the past 20 years.
 
I don't need data, I just need my eyes. 


 
 
Ditto
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote a well wisher Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2013 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by botak


Climate change is never discussed in the correct way, you do not have to prove climate change is man made before you react, you have to prove a possibility that climate change is man made. The debate shouldn't be 'is climate change man made' it should be 'what is the probability that climate change is man made?'


But ultimately, it doesn't matter that the scientific debate is 'inconclusive', it doesn't even matter if the vast scientific consensus is wrong.
 

Communicating uncertainty in climate science

When the media talk about cli­mate change scep­ti­cism, they usu­ally mean that people are uncer­tain in some way about the reality or ser­i­ous­ness of cli­mate change.

A number of polls of public atti­tudes towards cli­mate change have doc­u­mented an increase in the degree of per­ceived uncer­tainty about cli­mate change over the past three years (BBC, 2010; Pew Research Centre, 2009; Spence, Venables, Pidgeon, Poortinga & Demski, 2010). These data on public opinion about cli­mate change can be con­trasted with a recent survey of active and pub­lishing cli­mate sci­ent­ists. Among this group, Doran and Zimmerman (2009) found 97% agree that human activity is con­trib­uting to cli­mate change. On the basic ques­tion of whether human activity is influ­en­cing the global cli­mate there is very little uncer­tainty among cli­mate scientists.

But des­pite the over­whelming amount of sci­entific evid­ence that shows human activ­ities are causing the earth to warm, debates about cli­mate change are still char­ac­ter­ised by an enormous amount of uncer­tainty (Zehr, 2000). The everyday meaning of uncer­tainty is neg­ative – and so when it comes to cli­mate change, people tend to infer that sci­ent­ists do not know any­thing about a topic, just because they do not know everything about it. Uncertainty about cli­mate change is a major bar­rier to public engagement.

The British Royal Society has pro­duced a guide to the sci­ence of cli­mate change that describes the areas where the sci­ence is well estab­lished, where there is still some debate, and where genuine uncer­tain­ties remain. Although it is clearly written, it is aimed at people who have some under­standing of the sci­ence. But the basic mes­sage is very clear: there is strong and reli­able evid­ence that human activity has caused the earth to warm over the past 50 years – on this crit­ical point, there is next to no uncer­tainty. Emphasising that uncer­tainty in sci­ence is normal will help to combat the belief that uncer­tainty should equal inaction.

As a com­mu­nic­ator, it is crit­ical to explain to people the dif­fer­ence between sci­entific uncer­tainty (that is, the extent to which sci­ent­ists agree about the answer to a par­tic­ular ques­tion), and uncer­tainty that comes from deciding how to respond to what the cli­mate sci­ence tells us. In his book, Why we dis­agree about cli­mate change, the cli­mate sci­entist Mike Hulme shows how easy it is to con­fuse the dif­ferent types of uncer­tainty that sur­round cli­mate change (Hulme, 2009).

No matter how much sci­ence is con­ducted, it will never tell us which of a set of dif­ferent policies to choose. A sci­entist can tell you how much carbon is in the atmo­sphere, and cal­cu­late the effect­ive­ness of dif­ferent methods of redu­cing it (e.g. redu­cing the number of cars on the road vs. reg­u­lating emis­sions from cement factories). But a sci­entist cannot tell you which of these is the right choice to make – this is a decision for cit­izens and politi­cians. Being as clear as pos­sible about the dif­fer­ence between cli­mate sci­ence, and the choices we make based on that sci­ence, is essen­tial for effective com­mu­nic­a­tion – oth­er­wise, these dif­ferent types of uncer­tainty become confused.

La ilaha ill-Allah, Muhammadur Rasulullah
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