Hall of FameHall of Fame  Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp  chatChat
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
InterReligious Dialogue
 Whyislam.org Forums : General : InterReligious Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Apostolic Tradition Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 14 Next >>
Author Message
Burninglight  
Graduate
Graduate
Avatar
Religion: Christian(Non-Denom.)
Posts: 2373
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Burninglight Replybullet Posted: 07 June 2013 at 5:40pm
Mormonism is a spiritual maze. They believe we are saved (eternal life) by grace after all we can do; This is against Scripture; they believe we are sons of God and that we always were and should continue to be the sons of God by adhering to the gospel. The truth is that we are not sons of God, but that when we receive Christ as Lord of our life, He gives us the power to become the sons of God./\ What Mormonism teaches is a complicated maze of presumptuous teachings that systemically draws us away from the gospel and truth. Joseph Smith did what Muhammad had done. He started a religion.

There is only one salvation. It is written. It is appointed unto man once to die. After that, comes the judgment. We are either saved for eternal life or damned in eternal torment.

Edited by Burninglight - 07 June 2013 at 10:05pm
"Christ is not valued at all unless He is valued above all."
Augustine
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Janet Waters  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Location: United States
Religion: Christian(Mormon)
Posts: 3617
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Janet Waters Replybullet Posted: 10 June 2013 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by Burninglight

Mormonism is a spiritual maze. They believe we are saved (eternal life) by grace after all we can do; This is against Scripture; they believe we are sons of God and that we always were and should continue to be the sons of God by adhering to the gospel. The truth is that we are not sons of God, but that when we receive Christ as Lord of our life, He gives us the power to become the sons of God./\ What Mormonism teaches is a complicated maze of presumptuous teachings that systemically draws us away from the gospel and truth. Joseph Smith did what Muhammad had done. He started a religion.

There is only one salvation. It is written. It is appointed unto man once to die. After that, comes the judgment. We are either saved for eternal life or damned in eternal torment.


I will not respond to this post because Burninglight cannot respond back to any more of my comments concerning this thread.

Burninglight has been banned from making comments on WhyIslam.com without warning. He has a YouTube account under the same name if any one wants to continue this discussion with him.



Edited by Janet Waters - 10 June 2013 at 2:59pm
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Al-Cordoby  
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Moderator
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 27587
Forum Rating: 159
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 10 June 2013 at 4:01pm
Burninglight has been asked several times to post in a responsible way, and for the last months we have been very patient with him

Had he been on any other forum he would have been banned many months ago

As he insisted on continuing his destructive way of posting we had no other option than to ban him

Think Win-Win for a better world for all...

My Blog
Muslim Heritage

No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Magister
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 5161
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 10 June 2013 at 4:13pm
While I enjoyed some of the exchanges I had had with him, the truth is, he was really out of line. All he did was spread lies about Islam and would jump on every chance he could to put Islam down. On more than one occasion he would turn a discussion not involving Islam into one bashing Islam (and Catholicism as well). I was personally shocked he was allowed to stick around for so long. I do hope the best for him in his life.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
The_Rock
Mureed
Mureed

Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4492
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 11 June 2013 at 11:45am
Really waiting for this to happen. I agree the leadership of the board was much to lenient and he spread only discord.
 
I wasnt joking when I said that he is afflicted spiritually.
 
Just because you proclaim a certain faith doesnt mean you are immune to spiritual afflictions (demons)
 
I suspect that burning light, given the fruits of his labors, was spiritually afflicted.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Janet Waters  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Location: United States
Religion: Christian(Mormon)
Posts: 3617
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Janet Waters Replybullet Posted: 11 June 2013 at 5:02pm
Originally posted by The_Rock



Really waiting for this to happen. I agree the leadership of the board was much to lenient and he spread only discord.
 
I wasnt joking when I said that he is afflicted spiritually.
 
Just because you proclaim a certain faith doesnt mean you are immune to spiritual afflictions (demons)
 
I suspect that burning light, given the fruits of his labors, was spiritually afflicted.


I don't agree with your comment. Burninglight's belief system came from his interpretation of scripture....just like everyone else. No "demons" were involved. He really believed what he posted (right or wrong) and his interpretations were backed many times with scripture. Burninglight is a really good person who has good and honorable intentions---even though his approach was misguided and it needed to change.

Burninglight made a lot of good points to think about. However many times he would get stuck on singular verses and wind-up over-simplifiling a complicated doctrine (because he didn't look at all the scriptures dealing with that doctrine). So at times, he had a tendency of focusing on one tree while missing the whole forrest. Because of this----he could be narrow-minded in his interpretations and his preconceived notions caused him to judge others harshly (compounding the problem). Notwithstanding this---I would not conclude that Burninglight had "spiritual afflictions" because of his misguided approach or his misinterpretation of scripture.





No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
The_Rock
Mureed
Mureed

Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4492
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 11 June 2013 at 5:14pm
Janet,

I am going to have to disagree with you.

Nowhere does the scriptures ask you to be antagonistic to people who do not believe as you do. BL was not the way he was because of his convictions, if he truly believed the scripture he would dust his sandals and move on as the scriptures asked. So he wasnt following scripture.

Do you see squeegie doing the same thing? No you dont.

They follow the same religion, and yet their ways were different.

So BL's system did not come from his interpretation of scripture, but rather from the lack thereof.

You cannot lay his "fruits" at christianity's doorstep.

He was afflicted spiritually.

As you are aware, I believe that you are severely misguided as did BL.
At no point have I said offensive things to you about your beliefs.
And to your defense, you have reserved your opinion about mine.

Ask yourself why this is the case?

Its because we who truly believe our scripture (which is in part common) know that our scripture calls us to love, be wise in our ways and forgive one another.

How much of that was BL's way?

I only recently decided to "go after BL" to show him his way was not scriptural.

Both of us understand the human condition is suffering, and dont need to add to that.

We can share what we believe without antagonizing each other.

BL was an antagonist and that anger came from deep within him, which I reckon to be a spiritual affliction.

So BL was not following scripture and BL was trying to cause pain (in the name of love, according to him).


Edited by The_Rock - 11 June 2013 at 5:20pm
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Janet Waters  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Location: United States
Religion: Christian(Mormon)
Posts: 3617
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Janet Waters Replybullet Posted: 11 June 2013 at 5:17pm
In all ages of time---the Priesthood (which is the authority given by God to men to administer the ordinances of the gospel) has always been handed down by an unbroken line of Apostolic succession. When there is a break---in order for the priesthood to continue with man---the windows of heaven must be reopened and reissued again.

What constitutes a break? When one of the 12 Apostles were killed and no one was ordained to fill the vacancy. Or when the Apostles departed from the faith and no one was ordained to fill the vacancy.


The question is....if the Catholic Church claims Apostolic succession....then who are their 12 Apostles who have continued to fill the previous vacancies until now without a break?






No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
The_Rock
Mureed
Mureed

Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4492
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 11 June 2013 at 5:22pm
in the acts of the apostles there are some chosen to show you the apostolic succession.

6 Now in these days when the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint by the Hellenists arose against the Hebrews because their widows were being neglected in the daily distribution. 2 And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, “It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables. 3 Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty. 4 But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.” 5 And what they said pleased the whole gathering, and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolaus, a proselyte of Antioch. 6 These they set before the apostles, and they prayed and laid their hands on them.

7 And the word of God continued to increase, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests became obedient to the faith.

Edited by The_Rock - 11 June 2013 at 5:23pm
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
The_Rock
Mureed
Mureed

Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4492
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 11 June 2013 at 5:25pm
23 So they nominated two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24 Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
The_Rock
Mureed
Mureed

Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4492
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 11 June 2013 at 5:30pm
Apostolic succession has never been broken for the remaining 5 patriarchs.

7 were lost to invaders and empires.

1) Rome, in Italy (Saint Peter)
2) Constantinople, now Istanbul in present-day Turkey (Saint Andrew)
3) Alexandria, in Egypt (Saint Mark)
4) Antioch, in present-day Turkey (Saint Thomas).
5) Jerusalem, in the Holy Land (Saint James)

Every priest has learned teacher to student in an unbroken line, the teachings of the Christ.

Edited by The_Rock - 11 June 2013 at 5:36pm
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Janet Waters  
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Location: United States
Religion: Christian(Mormon)
Posts: 3617
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Janet Waters Replybullet Posted: 11 June 2013 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by The_Rock

23 So they nominated two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24 Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.


Proof from the scriptures about how Apostolic succession (fulfilling the 12 vacancies) was administered and designed to continue in order for men to have the priesthood (authority to administer the gospel).

So if there is an unbroken line of Apostolic succession in the Catholic Church-----then where are your 12 Apostles who have filled the vacancies up until 2013?



Edited by Janet Waters - 11 June 2013 at 5:36pm
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
The_Rock
Mureed
Mureed

Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4492
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 11 June 2013 at 5:40pm
Janet,

The 12 went out and preached what they learned from Jesus and on pentecost.

They in turn taught a chosen few, who in turn taught a chosen few.

Although the didache for the churches differ in form they are the same substance.

In essence apostolic succession simply means that what you follow is what Jesus actually taught the disciples.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
The_Rock
Mureed
Mureed

Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4492
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 11 June 2013 at 5:43pm
As I explained 7 of the twelve churches that were founded were lost in time. Their chains of teachers came to an end.

5 remain - these are the ones I named.

I would include the High Anglican and High Lutheran, because they too have retained apostolic succession inherited from Rome, and are really a subset of the RCC, although they might take offence to me describing them as such.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 14 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums version 8.03
Copyright ©2001-2006 Web Wiz Guide
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed by members of the Whyislam Forum do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of the Whyislam Team, or any of its subsidiaries, or parent organizations.