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Al-Cordoby  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2014 at 7:11am
Originally posted by Nura


A question I would like to ask to Muslims is if I can use wine for facial masks and other beauty treatments, without drinking it of course. I am a big fan of natural beauty products and I make most of my creams and masks by myself at home. I have read a lot about "vinotherapy", i.e. using wine for facial masks and beauty treatments and I would like to try, but I don't know if it's permissible.


Salam sister

That question needs a fatwa from a specialized scholar

You can Ask the Scholar right here:

http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-the-scholar.html



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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2014 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

Hello Damo

God tells us in the Qur'an the following:

"They ask you about wine and gambling. Say, "In them is great sin and [yet, some] benefit for people.

But their sin is greater than their benefit..."
" (2:219)

Divine Laws are meant to protect people from harm.

God does not give us these laws for the "wise" people only who can control how much alcohol they consume in order not to harm their health, but He gives us these laws for the average person

If you go out at night over the weekend and see how average people behave when drinking, you can realize the wisdom of this Divine Law

Binge-drinking is become a serious problem as you know in the UK, and in Europe in general, and the damage it causes to health, wealth and human life is tremendous.


  Gambling and drunkenness (alcohol abuse) is a sin in Christianity too Al. Just making that clear  .

Al.. lets be honest. In as many posts now you have not provided one piece of data which proves there is a risk of health problems with moderate alcohol consumption. That was what this thread was about.
  The social ills which you speak of is not the fault of a substance.. but the  the moral make-up of those who both abuse it and of those who sell it in places considered immoral.
 That's quite different to those who enjoy wine when dining, dining with friends, having company at home, celebrations etc.

 Alcohol like a gun is only immoral depending on the morality of who's handling it.




Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

As for Christian quotes in the Bible, this is the answer of brother Idris Tawfiq, a former British Catholic priest, which you may find interesting:

A Wine-Drinking Jesus?

http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-about-islam/society-and-family/interfaith-issues/167309-a-wine-drinking-jesus.html




 Al the link really only quotes from Islamic literature on why alcohol is prohibited for Muslims., followed by the assertion that at some point in unknown history as the islamic claim goes that Christian scripture was altered and hence why Christians may consume alcohol today..
  I mean c'mon Al, this is fine reading if your a fully fledged Muslim trying to understand what Islam teaches,  but it doesn't bolster anything to the claim of the initial post or in any-way take away from the credibility of the Bible. Thats a wholly other argument altogether ..Biblical/Quran legitimacy.


Just to add my two cents, the health benefits you get from red wine can be obtained by eating grapes, especially red ones.
The main benefit of red wine comes from resveratrol, an antioxidant that protects the heart and help cells "stay young". But resveratrol is present in red grapes, especially in the skin, as well as flavonoids and sapponins.

Besides, red wine is said to reinforce the enamel of teeth to prevent tooth decay. Anyway, all these benefits are found even in grape juice and non alcoholic red wine.

I know people who have drunk wine in moderation all their lives long without any negative consequences. However, if you avoid it at all you are on the "safe side", not only concerning alcoholism and liver problems, but also you don't have to worry about drinking and driving :).

-Nura


 So were agreed that there are no established negative affects of moderate drinking ?

 I think the hang-up with alcohol is how inebriation is perceived.
There is a difference between being in a state of inebriation and drunkenness.
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2014 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by Nura

Just to add my two cents, the health benefits you get from red wine can be obtained by eating grapes, especially red ones.
The main benefit of red wine comes from resveratrol, an antioxidant that protects the heart and help cells "stay young". But resveratrol is present in red grapes, especially in the skin, as well as flavonoids and sapponins.

Besides, red wine is said to reinforce the enamel of teeth to prevent tooth decay. Anyway, all these benefits are found even in grape juice and non alcoholic red wine.


Just recently, less than a week ago, they had an article about new research pointing to even casual drinking of alcohol to shortening your lifespan. I didn't read the article, only the headlines, so I'm not sure if the research was conclusive, or if drinking alcohol does shorten your lifespan.

Originally posted by Nura


However, if you avoid it at all you are on the "safe side", not only concerning alcoholism and liver problems, but also you don't have to worry about drinking and driving :)


...and...perhaps most importantly of all: if we abstain from drinking entirely, we then need not worry about forming painfully embarrassing memories associated with dance floors and certain songs.

It reminds me of that meme I saw not that long ago:



Originally posted by Nura

A question I would like to ask to Muslims is if I can use wine for facial masks and other beauty treatments, without drinking it of course. I am a big fan of natural beauty products and I make most of my creams and masks by myself at home. I have read a lot about "vinotherapy", i.e. using wine for facial masks and beauty treatments and I would like to try, but I don't know if it's permissible.


I know they make "halal" makeup that doesn't have pork or alcohol in it. But when I see these things, I have to joke and ask: "Are they expecting their customers to eat the makeup?" I'm of the view that the Quran forbids consuming alcohol, not much else. So in my eyes, "halal" cosmetics is a gimmick. Not to mention, people whom I've met that purchase only halal makeup and hold views that alcohol is forbidden even beyond just drinking ironically keep rubbing alcohol and hand sanitizers around. Not to mention cough syrup and other medicines to relieve common symptoms to colds, flus, etc. Oh, and many cakes, chocolates, etc. in the West are made with alcohol. Vanilla extract. Even Coke is reported to have alcohol in it as a secret ingredient, but I believe Saudi doctors and scholars worked in conjunction to conclude that the alcohol in the soda is no longer alcohol or something along those lines.

That's just my view, and I can get the other side's argument...I'm just not convinced, but here's a link to a Q&A with a similar question. It gives both sides and I do get the logic of it being impure like a dog or a pig, but...Allahu alim, here's the link:


http://www.islamicity.com/qa/action.lasso.asp?-db=services&-lay=Ask&-op=eq&number=5699&-format=detailpop.shtml&-find


Edited by Magister - 20 January 2014 at 4:45pm
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2014 at 5:45pm
Speaking of the harms of alcohol, this woman thinks it's Carnival's fault that she got so drunk and fell overboard.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/01/18/drunk-woman-sues-carnival-after-falling-overboard
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2014 at 2:08pm

Socializing In Pubs Boosts Men’s Mental Health; Drinking With Friends Offers Safe Place To Express Emotions

http://www.medicaldaily.com/socializing-pubs-boosts-mens-mental-health-drinking-friends-offers-safe-place-express-emotions.

 Not that i condone fraternizing in all drinking establishments. But the study proves that alcohol certainly can be uplifting to mental health if taken in moderation in a social environment.

It was said that  when Churchill met Stalin the frostiness between the two leaders was soothed through both their fondness for alcohol and made open dialogue and frankness of debate more personal and relaxed. Their personal relationship was vital in defeating Nazi Germany.

 Again the state of inebriation is not a sinful state, going beyond being inebriated to going of the rails and knowingly making yourself drunk beyond your control is when you violate what it was intended for.



Edited by Damo808 - 21 January 2014 at 2:09pm
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2014 at 11:58pm
It's like playing with fire, Damo

One may or may not get drunk, and if they do they get aggressive, get into fights and hooliganism and crazy driving which can harm or kill people on the street.

God's advice to us is Don't play with fire, and preserve your health and intellect.

Don't throw away God's gifts...


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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2014 at 5:38am
Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

It's like playing with fire, Damo

One may or may not get drunk, and if they do they get aggressive, get into fights and hooliganism and crazy driving which can harm or kill people on the street.

God's advice to us is Don't play with fire, and preserve your health and intellect.

Don't throw away God's gifts...




 Drunkenness although undesirable.. doesn't automatically lead to aggression in everybody who over does it. People who fall into that category have issues. Alcohol only brings them to the surface. If someone drinks alcohol in the knowledge that their manner changes for the worst under the influence then they in sobriety should avoid it completely . Its not rocket science its simple self discipline. The influence of alcohol you as a Muslim are only taught and teach is a negative one only, whilst ignoring all positive aspects consumed in the proper environment such as serving to heighten feelings of empathy, trust,  openness to frank discussion, calming of nerves. and not to mention can bring enemies together.   Alcohol is a great ice breaker. How many issues could have been resolved in history over a tipple of wine between foes rather than the ensuing spilled blood God only knows.
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote botak Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2014 at 6:03am
You can't ignore the fact that alcohol has brought great pleasure to billions of people the world over for thousands of years. The vast majority of drinkers would say it's brought them more benefits than harms over the course of their life.

As Winston Churchill said 'I have taken more out of alcohol, than alcohol has taken out of me.' (and he certainly wasn't a moderate drinker)

Of course alcohol can cause harm, but there is nothing unethical about damaging your own body, and moderate drinking doesn't damage it a great deal, if at all, anyway. It might even be good for some people if it helps them relax and have fun anyway, as these have positive benefits on the body.

Drunk people also do harm to others of course, but when a religious fanatic harms others we say 'blame the individual, not the religion'. Same is true with alcohol.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2014 at 6:21am
Originally posted by botak



Drunk people also do harm to others of course, but when a religious fanatic harms others we say 'blame the individual, not the religion'. Same is true with alcohol.



  Great perspective !
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2014 at 6:27am
Originally posted by Damo808

  Alcohol is a great ice breaker. How many issues could have been resolved in history over a tipple of wine between foes rather than the ensuing spilled blood God only knows.


Alcohol does have some benefits, and God says so in the Qur'an, Damo

But He also says that its sin is greater than its benefit

They ask you about wine and gambling. Say, "In them is great sin and [yet, some] benefit for people.

But their sin is greater than their benefit."
(2:219)


It is prohibited because the disadvantages outweigh the advantages

So don't play with fire!

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote a well wisher Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2014 at 6:45am

Can a Functioning Alcoholic Be Affected by One Drink?

Some functioning alcoholics do indeed show signs of intoxication with as little as a single drink. There are at least two different reasons why this might happen.

A particular individual could have both an under-functioning liver and a growing allergic reaction to alcohol.....

The prolonged abuse of alcohol takes its toll on the body. Besides destroying brain cells, it affects liver function and can have major effects on metabolism. Because alcohol is a diuretic, and alcoholics typically don’t drink much water, they tend to be in a chronic state of dehydration. Dehydration can of course be responsible for a host of other problems, including brain fog.

La ilaha ill-Allah, Muhammadur Rasulullah
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote a well wisher Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2014 at 6:48am

The Functioning Alcoholic and Memory Loss

I have often characterized self-medication with alcohol as voluntary dissociation. The functioning alcoholic drinks to split off from the reality of his life, his pain or his feelings of inadequacy. When he enters that altered state he feels better. The problem is that he has become addicted to alcohol over time. Now he simply needs alcohol to feel at all OK.

When people are in dissociated states, with or without alcohol, they are simply not there.

Whether the deteriorating memory in the functional alcoholic is the result of brain damage or dissociation or, more probably, both, it should be taken as a symptom of advancing alcoholism.
 
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote a well wisher Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2014 at 6:55am

Alcohol Related Brain Injury: ‘The Invisible Condition’

There are signs of an increasing trend in the number of people with Alcohol Related Brain Injury (ARBI), according to new research.
 
 

The UK government’s shameful dumping of its alcohol strategy – from a liver specialist who lives with the fallout

 
Young binge drinkers are merely the tip of the iceberg. The real damage is done behind the scenes as a new generation of middle aged daily drinkers succumb to the health consequences of alcohol, resulting in the loss of around 97,000 years of working life, more perhaps even than smoking for which the equivalent figure seems to be around 84,000 years. Liver disease used to be rare in the UK and even as late as the 1980’s the UK had practically the lowest level of alcohol consumption in Europe, together with lowest liver death rates. For decades since the 1920’s cirrhosis was a disease of the rich because one needed to be relatively wealthy to consume enough strong alcohol to develop cirrhosis. Since the 1970s the picture has transformed completely, liver death rates in working age have increased 500% and liver disease is now a disease of deprivation alongside smoking and obesity. The collective personality of UK citizens hasn’t changed in this time. These are not diseases of ‘inadequate behaviours’, they are diseases of unhealthy environments and of extremely healthy profitability for the corporate shareholders. As such they are the health challenge of the 21st century and the corporations and investors who profit can be viewed as vectors, just as mosquitoes are the vectors of malaria.
 
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote a well wisher Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2014 at 7:03am

Lobbyists: what alcohol and gambling learned from tobacco

The addiction industries – gambling, alcohol and now sugar – had it tough last week. All are under pressure to defend their industries against increasing evidence of their harm and calls for intervention. But the chances of this government acting in the wider public interest are almost nil. Lobbying by these industries has put paid to that.

The lobbying strategies they employ to win politicians to their cause are strikingly similar. And they have all learnt their tactics from one industry: tobacco.

The lobbying starts with denial. When the sugar industry was last week forced onto the back foot by public health scientists calling for action to cut sugar intake to protect public health, the predictable response was to deny the now substantial evidence showing sugar’s harm: ‘Sugars… are not the cause of obesity,’ said industry lobby group, the Food and Drink Federation. This has long been the position of the industry.

The fifty year campaign to deny the link between tobacco and disease is well documented. “Doubt is our product”, as one tobacco executive wrote in 1969. Put plainly, no one was to believe the evidence before them. People must remain in doubt. The doctors and academics calling for action this week were quite right to dub sugar “the new tobacco”.

Alongside industry denial campaigns, the addiction lobbyists have also sought to embed themselves in government and dominate any policy-response to harm caused by their product. Of course, if you are a social pariah that is going to be harder than if you are seen as a “responsible” company actively working to tackle problems. Lobbyists have worked hard to reposition their industries as the solution to a manageable problem.

Tobacco got this wrong. In the eighties, executives worried in private that their denial message was becoming untenable. An internal BAT from the time shows tobacco scientists arguing that they should publicly acknowledge that there was a “probability that smoking is harmful to a small percentage of heavy smokers”. It was a proposed damage limitation exercise. “By giving a little we may gain a lot. By giving nothing we stand to lose everything”, one said. In the event it took another 20 years for them to publicly concede that smoking was bad for you.

The alcohol industry learnt from the tobacco industry’s mistake. For decades, alcohol’s strategy to fend off government regulation has been to redefine the problem with alcohol as one affecting a small minority of heavy drinkers, contrary to the evidence.

La ilaha ill-Allah, Muhammadur Rasulullah
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