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Al-Cordoby  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Topic: Dr Tim Winter's Islamic Perspective on the Trinity
    Posted: 25 February 2017 at 2:59am

Professor Timothy Winter's Islamic Perspective on the Trinity (Podcast)

In this episode I talk with Professor Timothy Winter (a.k.a. Shaikh Abdal-Hakim Murad), an Islamic theologian at Cambridge University.

He's the author of a chapter called "The Trinity is Incoherent" in the 2013 collection edited by J.P. Moreland, Chad Meister, and Khaldoun A. Sweis, Debating Christian Theism.

It was paired with a chapter by Dr. Tom Senor, a Christian philosopher from the University of Arkansas, called "The Trinity is Coherent."

These chapters are very different; Senor's is entirely philosophical and apologetic, whereas Winter's is biblical and pastoral. Senor argues: it is not contradictory.

Winter argues: it's not in the Bible, not an idea of Jesus's, and is a barrier to spiritual life.

Here I summarize Dr. Senor's chapter before conversing with Professor Winter about his.

We talk about his Christian background, his views on the gospels, and his reaction to Dr. Senor's chapter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-Sj9fdyaWM

(25 minutes)


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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 26 February 2017 at 2:08am
This is a brilliant talk by Dr. Tim Winter.

The first minutes have a summary of the counter argument, then Dr. Tim gives his views on the topic.

Highly recommended for anyone searching for the Truth with an objective and open mind.

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 26 February 2017 at 9:28am
Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

This is a brilliant talk by Dr. Tim Winter.The first minutes have a summary of the counter argument, then Dr. Tim gives his views on the topic.Highly recommended for anyone searching for the Truth with an objective and open mind.

No matter how objective a person is they wouldn't be able to know what makes God tick. God's tri unity is not like anything on earth. God is way more multi decisional then humans. He can live in the past, the present, and the future at the same time.
His essence is not a math thing to be explained. It is a mistake to use human common sense or the finite to say what is or isn't possible with the infinite God who passes human understanding.

https://youtu.be/BNt5NKSse0Y



Edited by Saved - 26 February 2017 at 9:29am
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 26 February 2017 at 9:31am
This is so tiring because both the christian in this case and the Muslim have not read the ecfs and their defense against the heresies.

There is only one good because the only and sufficient definition for God is that God is the only creator.

There are three persons because God the creator revealed himself as three persons.

It's unbiblical and ignorant to say different.

It's particularly ignorant for Muslims to claim anything about the Trinity when their trinity is clearly defined as the Father, Mary and Jesus, incorrectly in the quran.

Edited by The_Rock - 26 February 2017 at 9:32am
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 26 February 2017 at 9:32am
Dr. Winter does not go into these issues

He explains his personal experience and the stages he went through, together with a historical look on some issues in the early centuries of Christianity...

Worth listening to - Highly recommended

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 26 February 2017 at 9:34am
So we must consider the village idiots position to define laws for the village.

There are all kinds of people who have all kinds of opinions.

The bottom line is what does scripture say?
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 26 February 2017 at 9:38am
The original scriptures, yes

In his talk, Dr. Winter, who was brought up in a Church of England school, from a conservative Christian family, makes an important difference between the Gospel of John and the other three gospels.

In Cambridge, he joined the Unitarian Church, when as a Christian he was unable to accept the concept of trinity ...

An intellectual and spiritual journey worth checking out ...

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 26 February 2017 at 9:39am
Originally posted by The_Rock

This is so tiring because both the christian in this case and the Muslim have not read the ecfs and their defense against the heresies.

There is only one good because the only and sufficient definition for God is that God is the only creator.

There are three persons because God the creator revealed himself as three persons.

It's unbiblical and ignorant to say different.

It's particularly ignorant for Muslims to claim anything about the Trinity when their trinity is clearly defined as the Father, Mary and Jesus, incorrectly in the quran.
Actually the order of the implied trinity by Allah in the Quran is the son, mother and father.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 26 February 2017 at 9:41am
Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

The original scriptures, yesIn his talk, Dr. Winter, who was brought up in a Church of England school, from a conservative Christian family, makes an important difference between the Gospel of John and the other three gospels.In Cambridge, he joined the Unitarian Church, when as a Christian he was unable to accept the concept of trinity ...An intellectual and spiritual journey worth checking out ...

We are not commanded to accept the trinity based on human intellect. God is not someone that can be humanly figured out.

Edited by Saved - 26 February 2017 at 9:41am
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 26 February 2017 at 9:42am
The talk is there for anyone to check out ...

Peace and all the best

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 26 February 2017 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

The original scriptures, yesIn his talk, Dr. Winter, who was brought up in a Church of England school, from a conservative Christian family, makes an important difference between the Gospel of John and the other three gospels.In Cambridge, he joined the Unitarian Church, when as a Christian he was unable to accept the concept of trinity ...An intellectual and spiritual journey worth checking out ...



Here is the issue. If this man actually read the ECFs he would have had all his answers.

He is extremely ignorant of Christianity, and thankfully makes very clear that he is ignorant of christianity.

However, he does lie about the Quran. When he says the quran has not specific statement about the Trinity.
Now, Im not sure why he does this.

As a christian, I would encourage any christian that does have a question about the Trinity to actually read the writings of the ECFs to understand the most Holy Trinity.


Edited by The_Rock - 26 February 2017 at 12:16pm
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ishammad Replybullet Posted: 26 February 2017 at 2:12pm
Say, "Indeed, those who invent falsehood about Allah will not succeed." 10:69
Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 26 February 2017 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by The_Rock

He is extremely ignorant of Christianity, and thankfully makes very clear that he is ignorant of christianity.
He is ignorant if he believes God is a unitary being.
Originally posted by The_Rock


However, he does lie about the Quran. When he says the quran has not specific statement about the Trinity.
Now, Im not sure why he does this.
Maybe he knows more about the Quran than you think, because he is right; the Quran doesn't specifically mention the trinity. The Quran only implies the trinity, but its implications are misconceptions Muslims still carry with them today.

Edited by Saved - 26 February 2017 at 4:16pm
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 26 February 2017 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by ishammad

Say, "Indeed, those who invent falsehood about Allah will not succeed." 10:69
We only want to say the truth about Allah; any false statements made by Christians is not intentional
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