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InterReligious Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: The benefits of Islam for non-Muslims? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 27 April 2017 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by ishammad

Say, "O People of the Scripture, you are [standing] on nothing until you uphold [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people. (5:68)
So, the law of the torah is fulfilled in obedience to the gospel according to the revelations revealed to us.
Originally posted by ishammad


(5:68) Say to them: 'People of the Book! You have no solid ground to stand on unless you establish the Torah and the Gospel and all that had been revealed to you from your Lord.97 Indeed the message revealed to you from your Lord will aggravate insurgence and unbelief in many of them.98 So do not grieve for those who disbelieve. (Quran 5:68)
We do this.

Originally posted by ishammad


97. By 'establishing the Torah and the Gospel' is meant observing them honestly and making them the law of life.
The revelations we received from the gospel is the law of life for us.
Originally posted by ishammad


It should be noted here that the Scriptures which comprise the Bible consist of two kinds of writings. One was composed by the Jewish and Christian authors themselves. The second consists of those portions which have been recorded as either the injunctions of God or as the utterances of Moses, Jesus and other Prophets.
So, what's the point?
Originally posted by ishammad


Such portions are those in which it has been categorically stated that God said so and so, or that a particular Prophet said so and so. If we were to exclude the portions belonging to the first category and carefully study those belonging to the second we would notice that their teachings are not perceptibly different from those of the Qur'an.
Okay, so we stick with the gospel
Originally posted by ishammad


It is true that the second category has not altogether escaped the tamperings of translators, scribes and exegetes, and the errors of oral transmitters.
Not enough tampering to concern Allah because he said nothing about it concerning the gospel. The central message is perfectly intact.
Originally posted by ishammad


Nevertheless, one cannot help feeling that the teachings embodied in the second category call man to the same pure monotheism as the Qur'an, that they propound those very beliefs propounded by the Qur'an and that they direct man to the same way of life as that to which the Qur'an seeks to direct him.
Pure monotheism originated with Judeo Christianity as does the borrowed virgin birth story of Jesus.
Originally posted by ishammad


Hence, had the Jews and the Christians adhered to the teaching attributed in their Scriptures to God and the Prophets they would certainly have become a truth-loving and truth-oriented group of people and would have been able to see in the Qur'an that very light which illuminates the earlier divine Scriptures. There would then have been no question of their abandoning their religion in order to follow the Prophet (peace be on him). To follow him would have caused neither break nor discontinuity; they would simply have gone one stage further along the same road.

98. Instead of reflecting on this seriously and dispassionately, they were seized by a fit of intransigence which intensified their opposition.

We don't see a spiritual transition of the torah and gospel to the Quran. If we did, we would be following the Quran. Zippo 0 connections are made by Jews and Christians

Edited by Saved - 27 April 2017 at 5:00pm
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Niblo Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2017 at 10:56am
Originally posted by Non Believer

Niblo, I wonder if you have any thoughts on the evolution of God's love through the course of the Bible. It seems to me that the Hebrews of the Pentateuch, the Israelites in Babylonia and the Christians of the Apostolic Period have substantially different perceptions of God's love.


Hello again.

Perhaps you should open a new thread after all, outlining your thoughts on this matter. In šāʾAllāh I will then do my best to reply from the stuff I've got.

Have a great weekend, and very best regards.

Paul
'Sometimes, silence is the best answer for a fool.'(Alī ibn Abī Tālib‎)
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Niblo Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2017 at 10:59am
Originally posted by Damo808

[QUOTE=Niblo] Being created in God's very likeness is what set us apart from the animal kingdom since the day of creation.

Enjoy your holiday.


Hello Damo.

Thank you, and sorry again for the delay.

Read again what your own Church teaches: ‘God, by His Providence, protects all that He has created’, which is to say that He preserves it from relapsing into nothingness: ‘If His Providence did not preserve all things with the same power with which they were created in the beginning they would fall back into nothingness immediately.’ (Denzinger 1784).

Divine providence is nothing other than Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla)’s care over the universe. His preserving love in action, so to speak.

You write: ‘Being created in God's very likeness is what set us apart from the animal kingdom since the day of creation.’

I assume that you are referring to this verse: ‘Let us make man in our own image, in the likeness of ourselves, and let them be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven, the cattle, all the wild animals and all the creatures that creep along the ground.’ (Genesis 1:26).

What does it mean to say that we are ‘created in God’s very likeness’? Theologians have argued for centuries over this matter; and still there is no consensus about the meaning of the expression.

Compare the Genesis verse with the following:

‘There is none like You, O Lord; You are great, and great is Your name in might. Who would not fear You, O King of the nations? Indeed it is Your due! For among all the wise men of the nations and in all their kingdoms, There is none like You.’ (Jeremiah 10:6-7); or this: ‘O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You, according to all that we have heard with our ears.’ (1 Chronicles 17:20); or this: ‘There is none like the God of Jeshurun, Who rides the heavens to your help, and through the skies in His majesty.’ (Deuteronomy 33:26); or this: ‘So he said: "May it be according to your word, that you may know that there is no one like the Lord our God.”’ (Exodus 8:10); or this: ‘For this time I will send all My plagues on you and your servants and your people, so that you may know that there is no one like Me in all the earth.’ (Exodus 9:14); or this: ‘For this reason You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You, according to all that we have heard with our ears.’ (2 Samuel 7:22); or this: ‘Remember the former things long past, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me.’ (Isaiah 46:9)’; or this: ‘To whom then will you liken God? Or what likeness will you compare to Him?’ (Isaiah 40:18).

The prophet Isaiah asks: ‘To whom then will you liken God? Or what likeness will you compare to Him?" (Isaiah 40:18). Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) tells us that He has no likeness.

These verses find their confirmation in the Qur’an; in the very words of Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla), who assures us that: ‘There is nothing like Him’ (Al-Shura: 11).

This verse contains the word ‘ka’mithlihi’; and this word uses two letters to describe likeness. The first (‘kaf’) is used to liken one thing to another to a great degree. The second (‘mithl’) likens one thing to another to a small degree. Linguistically, therefore, Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) is telling us that nothing at all can be compared to Him, not in the slightest degree.

Pope Benedict XVI wrote that the expression ‘image of God’ has to do with relationality. It is: ‘The dynamic that sets the human being in motion towards the totally Other. Hence it means the capacity for relationship; it is the human capacity for God.’ (‘In the Beginning: A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall’).

Without doubt humankind has a capacity for God – a desire for God. This is because we were created by Him and for Him; and He never ceases to draw us to Himself: ‘The root reason for human dignity lies in man's call to communion with God. From the very circumstance of his origin man is already invited to converse with God. For man would not exist were he not created by Gods love and constantly preserved by it; and he cannot live fully according to truth unless he freely acknowledges that love and devotes himself to His Creator.’ (‘Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World - Gaudium et Spes’; 19, para 1).

I repeat: What sets us apart from the animals, is that we alone are the object of Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla)’s sanctifying love; and it is by this means that our ‘capacity for God’ (our innate desire for a relationship with Him) can be satisfied.
'Sometimes, silence is the best answer for a fool.'(Alī ibn Abī Tālib‎)
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2017 at 1:11pm
I think that every one agrees regardless of your faith how God should be worshiped and what role we play and He does in out lives. I have never heard anything wrong or disagreeable from the Muslims perspective. I just wonder if we are worshipping different deities. I mean doing all the right act s of worship mean nothing if it is to the wrong god.

We all know we have the same Creator. I think it is important to not just call out to God without identifying Him in some way; for example, we could say "Our Creator, or The God of Abraham." We can maybe say the God of Jesus, because we all believe Jesus to be a Prophet of God, but that is not the case with Muhammad, because we don't all agree on Muhammad's prophet hood connection to the gospel. I feel we can be better guided by God when we are calling out to the same God our Creator and not assume the God we worship is the Creator.

Edited by Saved - 08 May 2017 at 9:45pm
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ishammad Replybullet Posted: 08 May 2017 at 6:08am
Sahih Muslim Book 037, Hadith Number 6623.

Chapter : The excellence of constant remembrance of Allah and meditation in the affairs of the hereafter and permission of abandoning it at times and attending to the affairs of the world.

Hanzala Usayyidi, who was amongst the scribes of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), reported: I met Abu Bakr. He said: Who are you? He (Hanzala) said: Hanzala has turned to be a hypocrite. He (Abu Bakr) said: Hallowed be Allah, what are you saying?

Thereupon he said: I say that when we are in the company of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) we ponder over Hell-Fire and Paradise as if we are seeing them with our very eyes and when we are away from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) we attend to our wives, our children, our business; most of these things (pertaining to After-life) slip out of our minds.

Abu Bakr said: By Allah, I also experience the same. So I and Abu Bakr went to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said to him: Allah's Messenger, Hanzala has turned to be a hypocrite. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: What has happened to you? I said: Allah's Messenger, when we are in your company, we are reminded of Hell-Fire and Paradise as if we are seeing them with our own eyes, but whenever we go away from you and attend to our wives, children and business, much of these things go out of our minds. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if your state of mind remains the same as it is in my presence and you are always busy in remembrance (of Allah), the Angels will shake hands with you in your beds and in your paths but, Hanzala, time should be devoted (to the worldly affairs) and time (should be devoted to prayer and meditation). He (the Holy Prophet) said this thrice.

Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 08 May 2017 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by ishammad

Sahih Muslim Book 037, Hadith Number 6623.

Chapter : The excellence of constant remembrance of Allah and meditation in the affairs of the hereafter and permission of abandoning it at times and attending to the affairs of the world.

Hanzala Usayyidi, who was amongst the scribes of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), reported: I met Abu Bakr. He said: Who are you? He (Hanzala) said: Hanzala has turned to be a hypocrite. He (Abu Bakr) said: Hallowed be Allah, what are you saying?

Thereupon he said: I say that when we are in the company of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) we ponder over Hell-Fire and Paradise as if we are seeing them with our very eyes and when we are away from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) we attend to our wives, our children, our business; most of these things (pertaining to After-life) slip out of our minds.

Abu Bakr said: By Allah, I also experience the same. So I and Abu Bakr went to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said to him: Allah's Messenger, Hanzala has turned to be a hypocrite. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: What has happened to you? I said: Allah's Messenger, when we are in your company, we are reminded of Hell-Fire and Paradise as if we are seeing them with our own eyes, but whenever we go away from you and attend to our wives, children and business, much of these things go out of our minds. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if your state of mind remains the same as it is in my presence and you are always busy in remembrance (of Allah), the Angels will shake hands with you in your beds and in your paths but, Hanzala, time should be devoted (to the worldly affairs) and time (should be devoted to prayer and meditation). He (the Holy Prophet) said this thrice.

Abu Bakr also said to the affect he "couldn't trust the Makr of Allah if he had one foot in paradise and one on earth;" what makes you think you can trust him more?

I would feel the same as Bakr if I were in his shoes, but I am saved in Christ written in the Lamb's Book of life, and I know who I am in Christ - I am Saved by the blood of the Lamb of God; those not found in the lamb's Book of life were casts into the fire. Like during the Passover, those with the blood on their dwelling were saved, but death came to those where there was no blood. True story!

Edited by Saved - 08 May 2017 at 9:53pm
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