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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 23 April 2017 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by Niblo

Originally posted by Al-Cordoby


Originally posted by Saved

Okay so we agree 100% WOW
<font size="3" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's great.So step by step we are identifying more common grounds between Islam and Christianity ...


As-Salāmu Ďalaykum wa Rahmatullāhi wa Barakātuhu, brother.

One of my happiest memories is of my son and daughter-in-law performing salat in the rain at Glencoe, in Scotland. They performed wudu in the stream that runs through the Glen; and prayed on the large mountain-rescue helipad that stands near the Glenís southern entrance.

I was not a Muslim then, and so my task was to hold my grandson!
Why do Muslims wash before praying. The religious leaders during the time of Jesus got on the disciples case for not washing before eating, but Jesus said "It is not what goes into a man that corrupts him but what comes out... you make clean the outside of the cup but inside is full of (false teachings and many other evil things) corruption" I understand from Scripture that God doesn't look at the cleanliness of our body before prayer; he looks at the cleanliness of the heart!

Edited by Saved - 24 April 2017 at 9:24am
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Niblo Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2017 at 8:41am
Originally posted by Non Believer

[QUOTE=Niblo] [QUOTE=Non Believer]
Niblo, I wonder if you have any thoughts on the evolution of God's love through the course of the Bible. It seems to me that the Hebrews of the Pentateuch, the Israelites in Babylonia and the Christians of the Apostolic Period have substantially different perceptions of God's love.


Hello again.

Thank you for your patience. Have made a start on answering your question. In sha Allah, I'll get back to you before the end of this week. Hectic times at work!!

Very best regards.

Paul
'Sometimes, silence is the best answer for a fool.'(Alī ibn Abī Tālib‎)
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote waheed1 Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2017 at 9:28am
Originally posted by Saved

Originally posted by Niblo

Originally posted by Al-Cordoby


Originally posted by Saved

Okay so we agree 100% WOW
<font size="3" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's great.So step by step we are identifying more common grounds between Islam and Christianity ...


As-Salāmu Ďalaykum wa Rahmatullāhi wa Barakātuhu, brother.

One of my happiest memories is of my son and daughter-in-law performing salat in the rain at Glencoe, in Scotland. They performed wudu in the stream that runs through the Glen; and prayed on the large mountain-rescue helipad that stands near the Glenís southern entrance.

I was not a Muslim then, and so my task was to hold my grandson!
Why do Muslims wash before praying. The religious leaders during the time of Jesus got on the disciples case for not washing before eating, but Jesus said "It is not what goes into a man that corrupts him but what comes out... you make clean the outside of the cup but inside is full of (false teachings and many other evil things) corruption" I understand from Scripture that God doesn't look at the cleanliness of our body before prayer; he looks at the cleanliness of the heart!


Washing before the worship helps in creating the necessary mindset to approach the Divine presence.

Moreover, it is a command in the Qur'an.

Here's a short article I found which purports to find Biblical paralells to the washing before prayer and the Muslim prayer itself.

https://darvish.wordpress.com/2013/10/06/muslim-prayer-in-the-bible/
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2017 at 9:57am
Originally posted by waheed1

Originally posted by Saved

Originally posted by Niblo

Originally posted by Al-Cordoby


Originally posted by Saved

Okay so we agree 100% WOW
<font size="3" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's great.So step by step we are identifying more common grounds between Islam and Christianity ...


As-Salāmu Ďalaykum wa Rahmatullāhi wa Barakātuhu, brother.

One of my happiest memories is of my son and daughter-in-law performing salat in the rain at Glencoe, in Scotland. They performed wudu in the stream that runs through the Glen; and prayed on the large mountain-rescue helipad that stands near the Glenís southern entrance.

I was not a Muslim then, and so my task was to hold my grandson!
Why do Muslims wash before praying. The religious leaders during the time of Jesus got on the disciples case for not washing before eating, but Jesus said "It is not what goes into a man that corrupts him but what comes out... you make clean the outside of the cup but inside is full of (false teachings and many other evil things) corruption" I understand from Scripture that God doesn't look at the cleanliness of our body before prayer; he looks at the cleanliness of the heart!


Washing before the worship helps in creating the necessary mindset to approach the Divine presence.

Moreover, it is a command in the Qur'an.

Here's a short article I found which purports to find Biblical paralells to the washing before prayer and the Muslim prayer itself.

https://darvish.wordpress.com/2013/10/06/muslim-prayer-in-the-bible/
I tried to open the link you send but it carries a security alert or virus that freezes my PC.
Well, it is in the Quran answers my question, but I fail to see what good it does spiritually. Christians don't need to wash to get in the mind set for prayer nor are we commanded to wash before prayer.

Edited by Saved - 24 April 2017 at 9:58am
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote waheed1 Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2017 at 10:14am
The link worked fine with me. Consider a search online for " Muslim prayer in the Bible "
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2017 at 11:27am
Originally posted by waheed1

The link worked fine with me. Consider a search online for " Muslim prayer in the Bible "
I' m not blaming you; it just is not working for me. I can do it the way you said.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Non Believer Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2017 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by Niblo

Originally posted by Non Believer

[QUOTE=Niblo] [QUOTE=Non Believer]
Niblo, I wonder if you have any thoughts on the evolution of God's love through the course of the Bible. It seems to me that the Hebrews of the Pentateuch, the Israelites in Babylonia and the Christians of the Apostolic Period have substantially different perceptions of God's love.


Hello again.

Thank you for your patience. Have made a start on answering your question. In sha Allah, I'll get back to you before the end of this week. Hectic times at work!!

Very best regards.

Paul
Thank you, my friend. I'll be away from my computer much of the time for the next few days. Do you think this subject is worthy of its own thread?
Men do you harm either because they fear you or because they hate you.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Niblo Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2017 at 4:18am
Originally posted by Non Believer

Thank you, my friend. I'll be away from my computer much of the time for the next few days. Do you think this subject is worthy of its own thread?


Possibly! Enjoy your time away from the computer.
'Sometimes, silence is the best answer for a fool.'(Alī ibn Abī Tālib‎)
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2017 at 11:59am
So what are the benefits of Islam for the non-believer besides living a moral life here and now when we know as for the hereafter that Abu Bakr (Muhammad's right hand man) didn't trust the makr of Allah if he had one foot in paradise and one on earth?

God gives us assurance of salvation in the gospel that is why it is the good news; why is the Quran good tidings?

Edited by Saved - 25 April 2017 at 1:00pm
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2017 at 5:52pm
Nothing past this life unless Allah (swt) chooses otherwise.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2017 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by Magister

Nothing past this life unless Allah (swt) chooses otherwise.

So, until Allah chooses otherwise, where does the person go after death or what happens to him or her?
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ishammad Replybullet Posted: 27 April 2017 at 4:44am

Those to whom We gave the Scripture before it - they are believers in it [the Qur'an].

And when it is recited to them, they say, "We have believed in it; indeed, it is the truth from our Lord. Indeed we were, [even] before it, Muslims [submitting to Allah]."


Those will be given their reward twice for what they patiently endured and [because] they avert evil through good, and from what We have provided them they spend.
(Qur'an 28:52-54)
-----------------------------------------------------

(Towards Understanding the Qur'an (28:54) - Al-Maududi)

(28:54) These are the people who shall be given their reward twice *74 for the fortitude they showed; *75 they repel evil with good *76 and spend out of what We have provided them with. *77

*74) That is, one reward for affirming faith in the Prophet Jesus (Allah's peace be upon him) and the second for affirming faith in Muhammad (may Allah's peace be upon him). The same thing has been expressed in the Hadith which Bukhari and Muslim have related on the authority of Hadrat Abu Musa Ash`ari. He says that the Holy Prophet said: "One of the three persons who will get a double reward is he who belonged to the people of the Book, had full faith in his Prophet and then affirmed faith in Muhammad (may Allah's peace be upon him)."

*75) That is, "They will get a double reward for the reason that they avoided nationalistic, racial and tribal prejudices and remained steadfast on the way of true Faith. When, on the advent of the new Prophet, they were confronted by a hard test, they proved by their conduct that they were not Christ-worshippers but God worshippers: they were not charmed by Christ's personality but were followers of "Islam". That is why when the new Prophet after Christ brought the same Islam that Christ had brought, they adopted the way of Islam under his leadership; without any hesitation, and gave up the way of those who remained stuck to Christianity. "

*76) That is, "They answer evil and falsehood with what is good and right: they repel injustice and mischief with what is just and noble; and they do not pay the other man back in the same coin. "

*77) That is, "They also make monetary sacrifices in the way of the truth. There might also be in it an allusion to this that those people had traveled from Habash to Makkah in search of the truth: they had no material gain in view when they undertook a toilsome journey involving a lot of expenses. When they heard that a man in Makkah had made a claim to be a Prophet, they thought it necessary to go and find out the truth, so that if a prophet had really been sent by God, they should not be deprived of affirming faith in him and being guided aright."

Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Saved Replybullet Posted: 27 April 2017 at 10:59am
Originally posted by ishammad


Those to whom We gave the Scripture before it - they are believers in it [the Qur'an].
I notice Quran was put in brackets. How do you know "it" wasn't referring to the gospel, because that is the subject in that sentence? Besides, this doesn't answer my question.
Originally posted by ishammad


And when it is recited to them, they say, "We have believed in it; indeed, it is the truth from our Lord. Indeed we were, [even] before it, Muslims [submitting to Allah]."
If this is referring to the Quran, how can Christians agree when the Scripture that came before (Gospel) is contradicted by the Quran in its central message, and when Allah told us people of the Book to adhere to the revelations we received for we can do no other? That revelation we received is the gospel. This is confusion or a contradiction, IMO.
Originally posted by ishammad


Those will be given their reward twice for what they patiently endured and [because] they avert evil through good, and from what We have provided them they spend
Towards Understanding the Qur'an (28:54) - Al-Maududi
(28:54) These are the people who shall be given their reward twice *74 for the fortitude they showed; *75 they repel evil with good *76 and spend out of what We have provided them with.
So a Christian who believes the Quran over his own gospel revelation will be reward twice; How is that repelling evil? The Christians is then having to go against the gospel. This doesn't make any sense to me.

Originally posted by ishammad


*74) That is, one reward for affirming faith in the Prophet Jesus (Allah's peace be upon him) and the second for affirming faith in Muhammad (may Allah's peace be upon him). The same thing has been expressed in the Hadith which Bukhari and Muslim have related on the authority of Hadrat Abu Musa Ash`ari. He says that the Holy Prophet said: "One of the three persons who will get a double reward is he who belonged to the people of the Book, had full faith in his Prophet and then affirmed faith in Muhammad (may Allah's peace be upon him)."
How can we affirm faith in the Jesus of the gospel and the Muhammad of the Quran when they both carry a mutually exclusive message? The only thing we agree on is that God is one (Monotheism), but that is nothing new to the Jew or Christian.

Originally posted by ishammad


*75) That is, "They will get a double reward for the reason that they avoided nationalistic, racial and tribal prejudices and remained steadfast on the way of true Faith. When, on the advent of the new Prophet, they were confronted by a hard test, they proved by their conduct that they were not Christ-worshippers but God worshippers: they were not charmed by Christ's personality but were followers of "Islam". That is why when the new Prophet after Christ brought the same Islam that Christ had brought, they adopted the way of Islam under his leadership; without any hesitation, and gave up the way of those who remained stuck to Christianity. "
So, here is the proof that Islam is a contrary message to Christianity. It appears that the God and Jesus of the gospel is not the same as the ones in the Quran. We don't see a Scriptural transition from the Scripture that came before to the Scripture you have now.

Originally posted by ishammad


*76) That is, "They answer evil and falsehood with what is good and right: they repel injustice and mischief with what is just and noble; and they do not pay the other man back in the same coin. "
Well, this is what the gospel teaches us; to do good when others do wrong. This is nothing new either.

Originally posted by ishammad


*77)That is, "They also make monetary sacrifices in the way of the truth. There might also be in it an allusion to this that those people had traveled from Habash to Makkah in search of the truth: they had no material gain in view when they undertook a toilsome journey involving a lot of expenses. When they heard that a man in Makkah had made a claim to be a Prophet, they thought it necessary to go and find out the truth, so that if a prophet had really been sent by God, they should not be deprived of affirming faith in him and being guided aright."

One shouldn't have to travel in search of truth at great expense when they know Jesus is the truth according to the Scripture. Jesus said, "I am the Truth..." He didn't say "I only show the truth for now." For a Christian to accept Muhammad as their prophet, they would have to turn their heel to the Jesus of the gospel. That reward would be a double curse for us from a Biblical perspective. How can we follow the Quran that appears so easy to gainsay?

Edited by Saved - 27 April 2017 at 11:01am
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ishammad Replybullet Posted: 27 April 2017 at 1:58pm
Say, "O People of the Scripture, you are [standing] on nothing until you uphold [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people. (5:68)

Originally posted by ishammad

(5:68) Say to them: 'People of the Book! You have no solid ground to stand on unless you establish the Torah and the Gospel and all that had been revealed to you from your Lord.97 Indeed the message revealed to you from your Lord will aggravate insurgence and unbelief in many of them.98 So do not grieve for those who disbelieve. (Quran 5:68)

97. By 'establishing the Torah and the Gospel' is meant observing them honestly and making them the law of life.

It should be noted here that the Scriptures which comprise the Bible consist of two kinds of writings. One was composed by the Jewish and Christian authors themselves. The second consists of those portions which have been recorded as either the injunctions of God or as the utterances of Moses, Jesus and other Prophets.

Such portions are those in which it has been categorically stated that God said so and so, or that a particular Prophet said so and so. If we were to exclude the portions belonging to the first category and carefully study those belonging to the second we would notice that their teachings are not perceptibly different from those of the Qur'an.

It is true that the second category has not altogether escaped the tamperings of translators, scribes and exegetes, and the errors of oral transmitters.

Nevertheless, one cannot help feeling that the teachings embodied in the second category call man to the same pure monotheism as the Qur'an, that they propound those very beliefs propounded by the Qur'an and that they direct man to the same way of life as that to which the Qur'an seeks to direct him.

Hence, had the Jews and the Christians adhered to the teaching attributed in their Scriptures to God and the Prophets they would certainly have become a truth-loving and truth-oriented group of people and would have been able to see in the Qur'an that very light which illuminates the earlier divine Scriptures. There would then have been no question of their abandoning their religion in order to follow the Prophet (peace be on him). To follow him would have caused neither break nor discontinuity; they would simply have gone one stage further along the same road.

98. Instead of reflecting on this seriously and dispassionately, they were seized by a fit of intransigence which intensified their opposition.


Towards Understanding the Quran - Al-Maududi
Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182
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