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ishammad  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ishammad Replybullet Posted: 24 June 2017 at 8:33pm
Yes NB, surely test everything, are you letting the evidence take you to where the truth is or simply ignoring the evidence that challenges your claim or where you want to be?

The difference between the Teacher and the prophet in what they convey is that the prophet is instructed by God in what to convey.

and because this is such a big claim, that's why prophets are supported with miracles. do or bring something that no other human can do or bring. got it?

but still you will find people who falsify the miracles and even deny that the prophets even existed.

And i think that this was not the case with Muhammad, since he was the final messenger. His miracle is exceptional in a way, i.e. not timed one.

Miracles are not meant for entertaining some audience by the way. among other things, they establish evidence and justifies the word against the deniers.

I personally felt that many of the points or arguments you raised were clearly answered in the the verses I used to quote. and seems you chose to neglect part of what you read, and chose not to read another part. in other words, giving a blind eye in many cases. though I claim that the counter argument is very powerful. and I understand that you may have raised points that i did not address specifically.

This great universe which we know little about did not come into being... "just like that."


Edited by ishammad - 24 June 2017 at 8:52pm
Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 24 June 2017 at 9:19pm
Originally posted by Non Believer

Originally posted by ishammad

All this exams and tests thing makes no sense what so ever.. , Your teacher was a human being after all.
Are you elevating him to a god?
All this passing and failing thing is total rubbish. right?

Well, If God communicated directly with you and conducted the classes or explained the lessons for you then it its a different story... then i guess you will have to come up something else to say... right?

I suppose this is the reply you may get from a boy 50 years younger than yourself.

I have an invitation for you o truth seeker (Ex-non believer)...
Why do not you just believe in you Creator o servant of God. and just ignore the whisperer who keeps whispering to you that you are very fine in this path of his and that you are very convinced that there is no God and that you are smart enough to never believe in God.

I am inviting you because if your don't ask God for help and give some effort to ignore the Whisperer, he will not cease and will continue whispering with the same until the time when he knows will that it is too late for you to believe now. i.e. he will be certain that your believe now will not benefit you at all.
I don't know what you're saying here.

My teachers were human and they made mistakes. Sometimes their mistakes were caught by students and were corrected. I might still be thinking that something that I was taught incorrectly is correct. One of the most important lessons a student can learn is to test everything he is taught.

If my teacher would've said that I should trust everything he tells me because he got his lessons straight from God, I'd have found a different teacher.

There are many "Whisperers" to ignore, some even post in these forums. How should I tell those whose knowledge will benefit me from those who I should ignore? Should I rely on their testimony that they know the truth because they got it directly from God's Messenger? Of course not.

We're lied to every day. People are mistaken in thought every day. Truth is not easy to discern. It might be harder today than ever before since mistakes and lies can be spread so easily.

You can't know what God's will is. You can't know if there's an after-life. You can't know with certainty if something is true. We pass through life with incomplete knowledge in all things. The righteous do their best to use their reason to figure out what they can.


The prophet (saws) is considered perfect in Islam, but not the way I think you understand perfection.

There is a hadith that gives evidence of how Muhammad (saws) was not perfect in every single way the way a non-Muslim would understand the word. He made mistakes and errors just like every other person.

The hadith that I remember was with a man growing something on his farm, and the Prophet (saws) gave him a recommendation, but when the man did it, he later found out that he was in a worse situation than he was in prior to receiving Muammad's (saws) advice. He mentioned it to the prophet, and the prophet reminded him that he's a human being just like everyone else and might make errors and give advice that might backfire in non-religious matters like farming. But he also reminded the man that this does not apply to what he hears from God, since God is perfect and cannot be wrong. (Please forgive me for not having a reference or exact quote from the hadith - I just remembered it off the top of my head, and apparently my keyword skills are not working on Google to locate this Hadith. Hopefully someone else recognizes what I'm referencing and can cite the whole thing.)

Further, Muslims for the most part are of the belief that prophets cannot sin. That they are like the angels in that respect - no free will. I heard this a lot but to be honest, I don't know the justification that's used for this position. Maybe Ishammad or someone else can chime in with the daleel (evidence) for claiming the prophets were perfect in behavior and obedience.


Edited by Magister - 24 June 2017 at 9:23pm
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 24 June 2017 at 9:25pm
Also, the word perfection is often used in a very subjective manner - what's perfect to someone might not be perfect to another. What's a flaw to someone might not be a flaw to another.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ishammad Replybullet Posted: 24 June 2017 at 11:17pm
excerpt from IslamQA.info

The infallibility of the Prophets

Praise be to Allaah.

The Prophets are the best of mankind, and the most noble of creation before Allaah. Allaah chose them to convey the call of Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah (There is none worthy of worship but Allaah) to mankind, and Allaah has made them the intermediaries between Him and His creation in conveying His Laws. They were commanded to convey the message from Allaah, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“They are those whom We gave the Book, Al‑Hukm (understanding of the religious laws), and Prophethood. But if these disbelieve therein (the Book, Al‑Hukm and Prophethood), then, indeed We have entrusted it to a people (such as the Companions of Prophet Muhammad) who are not disbelievers therein” [al-An’aam 6:89]

The Prophets’ task was to convey the message from Allaah even though they were human, hence the issue of infallibility may be examined from two angles:

1 – Infallibility in conveying the message
2 – Infallibility from human error

Firstly: With regard to the first issue, the Prophets were infallible in conveying the message from Allaah. They did not conceal anything that Allaah had revealed to them, and they did not add anything from themselves. Allaah said to His Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) (interpretation of the meaning):

“O Messenger (Muhammad)! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord. And if you do not, then you have not conveyed His Message. Allaah will protect you from mankind” [al-Maa'idah 5:67]

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And he (Muhammad) withholds not a knowledge of the Unseen” [al-Takweer 81:24]

So with regard to conveying the religion of his Lord, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not make any mistakes at all, whether major or minor, rather he was infallible and under the constant protection of Allaah.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Fataawa Ibn Baaz, 6/371:

All the Muslims are unanimously agreed that the Prophets (peace be upon them) – especially Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) – are infallible and protected from error in that which they conveyed from Allaah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“By the star when it goes down (or vanishes).
Your companion (Muhammad) has neither gone astray nor has erred.
Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.
It is only a Revelation revealed.
He has been taught (this Qur’aan) by one mighty in power [Jibreel (Gabriel)]”

[al-Najm 53:1-5]

Our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is infallible in all that he conveyed from Allaah, in word and deed and in what he approved of. There is no dispute on this point among the scholars.
End quote.

The ummah is agreed that the Messengers are infallible in their conveying the message. They did not forget anything that Allaah revealed to them, except for things that were abrogated. And Allaah guaranteed His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that he would remember it and would not forget it, except for that which Allaah wanted him to forget, and He guaranteed to remember the whole Qur’aan in his heart. Allaah said (interpretation of the meaning):

“We shall make you to recite (the Qur’aan), so you (O Muhammad) shall not forget (it)” [al-A’la 87:7]

“It is for Us to collect it and to give you (O Muhammad) the ability to recite it (the Qur’aan).
And when We have recited it to you [O Muhammad through Jibreel (Gabriel)], then follow its (the Qur’aan’s) recitation”

[al-Qiyaamah 75:17-18]

Secondly: With regard to the Prophets as people, they may make mistakes. This may be discussed as follows:

1 –They do not commit major sins

With regard to major sins, the Prophets do not commit major sins at all, and they are protected from such major sins both before their missions began or afterwards.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 4/319:

The view that the Prophets are infallible and protected against committing major sins, as opposed to minor sins, is the view of the majority of Muslim scholars and of all groups. It is also the view of the scholars of tafseer and hadeeth and fuqaha’. Indeed, nothing has been narrated from any of the salaf (righteous predecessors), imams, Sahaabah (companions), Taabi’een (early followers) and those who followed them except that which is in accordance with this view.
End quote.

2 – Matters that have nothing to do with conveying the message and the revelation.

With regard to minor sins, these may be committed by them, or by some of them. Hence the majority of scholars are of the view that they are not infallible when it comes to minor sins. But if they committed such actions they were not left to persist therein, rather Allaah pointed that out to them and they hastened to repent therefrom.

The evidence that they might commit minor sins and that they were not left to persist therein is the verses in which Allaah says of Adam (interpretation of the meaning):
“Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he went astray.
Then his Lord chose him, and turned to him with forgiveness, and gave him guidance”

[Ta-Ha 20:121-122]

This indicates that Adam committed sin, but he was not left to persist therein, and he repented to Allaah from that.

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“He said: ‘This is of Shaytaan’s (Satan’s) doing, verily, he is a plain misleading enemy.’
He said: ‘My Lord! Verily, I have wronged myself, so forgive me.’ Then He forgave him. Verily, He is the Oft‑Forgiving, the Most Merciful”

[al-Qasas 28:15-16]

So Moosa (Moses, peace be upon him) confessed his sin and sought forgiveness from Allaah after he killed the Egyptian, and Allaah forgave him his sin.

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“and he [Dawood (David)] sought forgiveness of his Lord, and he fell down prostrate and turned (to Allaah) in repentance.
So We forgave him that, and verily, for him is a near access to Us, and a good place of (final) return (Paradise)”

[Saad 38:23-24]

Dawood’s sin was hastening to pass judgement before hearing the case of the second disputant.

And our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was rebuked by his Lord for several things that are mentioned in the Qur’aan...

Some people think this is too much to suggest that Prophets may commit sin, and misinterpret some of the texts of the Qur’aan and Sunnah which indicate that. Two specious arguments lead them to do that:

(i) – The fact that Allaah has commanded us to follow the Messengers and take them as our example. The command to follow them is taken as meaning that everything they did is an example for us to follow, and that every action and belief of theirs is an act of worship. If we suggest that that the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) committed a sin, there will be a dilemma, because that implies that we are commanded to imitate this sin which was committed by the Prophet because we are commanded to follow his example, but at the same time we should no agree with it or do it, because it is a sin.

This argument is valid and is appropriate if the sin is hidden and not obvious in such a way that it could be confused with acts of obedience. But Allaah has explained to His Messengers where they went wrong and enabled them to repent without delay.

(ii) – Sins contradict perfection and are a shortcoming. This is true if they are not accompanied by repentance, for repentance brings forgiveness of sin, and does not contradict perfection or bring blame upon a person. Rather in many cases a person may be better after repenting than he was before he fell into sin. It is well known that no Prophet committed sin but he hastened to repent and seek forgiveness. The Prophets did not persist in sin or delay repentance, for Allaah protected them from that, and after repenting they became more perfect than they were before.   

3 – Unintentional mistakes with regard to some worldly matters

With regard to mistakes in some worldly matters, it is permissible for them to make such mistakes although their reason is sound and their insight is strong. This happened to several of the Prophets including our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). This happened with regard to various spheres of life such as medicine, agriculture, etc.

Muslim narrated in his Saheeh (6127) that Raafi’ ibn Khadeej said: The Prophet of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came to Madeenah and found them pollinating the palm trees. He said: “What are you doing?” They said: “We always do this.” He said: “Perhaps if you do not do it, that will be better.” So they did not do it, and the harvest failed. They told him about that and he said: “I am only human. If I tell you to do something with regard to your religion, then do it, but if I tell you to do something based on my own opinion, then I am only human.” Hence it is known that the Prophets are infallible and protected from error with regard to the Revelation, so we should beware of those who cast aspersions upon the Messenger’s conveying of the Message and his laws, and say that it is his own personal opinion. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) could never do such a thing. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.
It is only a Revelation revealed”

[al-Najm 53:3-4]

The Standing Committee was asked: Do the Prophets and Messengers make mistakes?

They replied:

Yes, they make mistakes but Allaah does not let them persist in their mistakes, rather he points out their mistakes to them as a mercy to them and their nations, and He forgives them for their mistakes, and accepts their repentance by His Grace and Mercy, for Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful, as will be clear to anyone who studies the verses of the Qur’aan which speak of that. [Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 3/194]

And Allaah knows best.


Edited by ishammad - 25 June 2017 at 7:14am
Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Non Believer Replybullet Posted: 25 June 2017 at 12:44pm
Yes, Ishammad, I understand that is what you believe.

A non-believer who is seeking the truth examines every statement in the article and asks the question "how do you know this?" The answer in every case is "because Muhammad told you".

Why does this matter to me? Because when I'm reading and trying to understand the Quran and the other texts I try to read with an open mind. I want to discover what is true and why. However, when I ask Muslims questions, they approach the questions with defensiveness, since there can be no question about the truth of the texts. Muslims seem to fear objective inquiry, like answering my simple question in the Q & D forum about what is "the Book/Scripture" referred to in Surah 6 Al-An'am.
Dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted by faith.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ishammad Replybullet Posted: 25 June 2017 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by Non Believer

Yes, Ishammad, I understand that is what you believe.
Yes, I understand your point, but the thing is that I am convinced of what I believe because is it based on evidence, not because this is what i found my forefathers on and i am following on their footsteps.
Originally posted by Non Believer

A non-believer who is seeking the truth examines every statement in the article and asks the question "how do you know this?"
Fair approach... reasonable people will agree with you wholeheartedly
Originally posted by Non Believer

The answer in every case is "because Muhammad told you".
Fair point... my friend, I think this is how it is with myself and with many Muslims i suppose... Firstly, reason and evidence convinced as that Muhammad is a prophet of God, and based on that we know take what he said. for instance you can't reach the conclusion that a man is a prophet then think that he my have lied here or spoke from his own inclination there. We just need to make sure that we understand and follow the message to the best of our ability. and repent oftenly... almost daily.
Originally posted by Non Believer

Why does this matter to me? Because when I'm reading and trying to understand the Quran and the other texts I try to read with an open mind. I want to discover what is true and why.
I take my hat off... no question.
Originally posted by Non Believer

However, when I ask Muslims questions, they approach the questions with defensiveness, since there can be no question about the truth of the texts.
I do agree with you, being in the defensive is not positive thing.. possibly my reply to the first point above could be relevant and partially explains the situation.
Originally posted by Non Believer

Muslims seem to fear objective inquiry, like answering my simple question in the Q & D forum about what is "the Book/Scripture" referred to in Surah 6 Al-An'am.
Please be sure that your inquiries are truly always welcomed. It didn't show in my PC that there are new posts in the Q & D section. or may be i just didn't notice. Also today is the first day of Eid, after the fasting month of Ramadhan.

   
Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Non Believer Replybullet Posted: 26 June 2017 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by ishammad


Originally posted by Non Believer

The answer in every case is "because Muhammad told you".
Fair point... my friend, I think this is how it is with myself and with many Muslims i suppose... Firstly, reason and evidence convinced as that Muhammad is a prophet of God, and based on that we know take what he said. for instance you can't reach the conclusion that a man is a prophet then think that he my have lied here or spoke from his own inclination there.
This is where we disagree.   If you believe that a prophet is human (not a God and not an angel), then doesn't he still have free will and the ability to make errors, to misjudge what is inspired and what is uninspired, and even to sin. This is what I'm speaking of when I say that there are things about which you can never have certain knowledge since you can only rely on human testimony and we know that humans are not perfect.
Dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted by faith.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ishammad Replybullet Posted: 26 June 2017 at 7:29pm
first, my apology for my typos in the paragraph you quoted "now take" not "know take", "he may" not "he my".

Well, I do not know if had read the article about the "Infallibility of the Prophets" because it does covers things you mention here.

It seems to me there is contradiction in what you say here. something is missing in this logic.. in one hand you talk about one with the assumption that someone is a prophet, and on the other hand you are mentioning a few "what if" of things that may go wrong.

My friend, its not like one of us sending someone with a message and is unaware what may happen with him or helpless and have no control in case the messenger tampers or misunderstands or whatever wrong may happen.

God is seeing, hearing, all-knowing.

Clarifying the scripture and the message to the messenger is part of this.

If the messenger attributes to God other than what God commands him, he will be punished.

If he conceals anything, then he has not conveyed the message and thus is not up to the mission.

and things like this.. please find the time to read the article if you haven't.


Edited by ishammad - 26 June 2017 at 7:40pm
Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Non Believer Replybullet Posted: Yesterday at 2:55pm
I'm just saying that prophets are human.

You and I are human and we don't agree on everything. Does this mean that one of us is deceitful or is concealing the truth or is inventing facts? Not at all! One of us may be mistaken, or maybe both of us are. Maybe it's possible that neither of us is mistaken and we're just looking at the same thing in slightly different ways!

I don't find the article convincing because it makes many assertions where the logic seems circular to me, assuming that the words of Muhammad are true to prove that the words of Muhammad are true. As I've said many times, I want to examine the words themselves. Even the Scriptures advise us to judge the prophet by his fruits (Matthew 7:16).

Also relevant to this is Matthew 7:18, which I don't agree with. "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit". It doesn't align with what I know about fruit trees or about people.

Perhaps my disagreement with Matthew 7:18 perfectly defines my disagreement with both Christianity and Islam: life is not so black and white. No man is purely good nor purely evil. I think everyone knows this, so why do religious people pretend otherwise?
Dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted by faith.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ishammad Replybullet Posted: Yesterday at 6:10pm
Wُell, reasonable point, NB

I'm also saying that prophets are human. Indeed, they have to be.

And they say, "Why was there not sent down to him an angel?" But if We had sent down an angel, the matter would have been decided; then they would not be reprieved.

And if We had made him an angel, We would have made him [appear as] a man, and We would have covered them [[i.e. certainly caused them confusion]] with that in which they cover themselves [i.e. which they have already covered with confusion].
(6:8-9)

But i'm also saying that they are not left alone after being assigned the mission of appointed to messengership and/or prophethood.

And be patient, [O Muhammad], for the decision of your Lord, for indeed, you are in Our eyes. And exalt [ Allah ] with praise of your Lord when you arise. (52:48)

Go, both of you, to Pharaoh. Indeed, he has transgressed.
And speak to him with gentle speech that perhaps he may be reminded or fear [Allah]."
They said, "Our Lord, indeed we are afraid that he will hasten [punishment] against us or that he will transgress."
[Allah] said, "Fear not. Indeed, I am with you both; I hear and I see.
(20:43-46)

Move not your tongue with it, [O Muhammad], to hasten with recitation of the Qur'an.
Indeed, upon Us is its collection [in your heart] and [to make possible] its recitation.
So when We have recited it [through Gabriel], then follow its recitation.
Then upon Us is its clarification [to you].
(75:16-19)

For many people, the logic is not circular, its sequential. as i mentioned in my post above. there is a conviction based on evidence that the Qur'an is from God and can't be from other than God, thus Muhammad must be a prophet. and prophets can't speak other than the truth in what they convey nor can they speak from their own desires. and God will not let one who misunderstands his message or is mistaken somewhere convey this in His Name and do nothing about it. otherwise one will be saying that it's God who failed in what He intended. Because a message was conveyed but not the correct one. (I seek refuge with God from such saying).

I'm saying its not circular because as in mathematics for instance, i remember when asked to prove something. we used to reach that by first proving a couple of other points, or by accepting them as roles that we can build on or use to reach to or prove the problem in question. this was basically related to geometry, angels and lines.

I tend to understand Matthew 7:18 to mean that a good tree would not produce a bad/harmful fruit in the next year or season for instance, and vice versa.
not bad fruit in the sense of low quality or infected with some illness.

by good tree i mean a tree whose fruits have already been tested and known. or a tree known to be beneficial in itself (not its fruits) for some use. and vice versa.

I am not saying pure good and pure evil.. I am saying there is glad tidings and clear warning concerning things clarified. God is most knowing of everyone. no one will be wronged an atom's weight.


Edited by ishammad - Yesterday at 7:26pm
Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Non Believer Replybullet Posted: Yesterday at 9:55pm
Originally posted by ishammad


For many people, the logic is not circular, its sequential. as i mentioned in my post above. there is a conviction based on evidence that the Qur'an is from God and can't be from other than God, thus Muhammad must be a prophet. and prophets can't speak other than the truth in what they convey nor can they speak from their own desires. and God will not let one who misunderstands his message or is mistaken somewhere convey this in His Name and do nothing about it. otherwise one will be saying that it's God who failed in what He intended. Because a message was conveyed but not the correct one. (I seek refuge with God from such saying).
Can't the same thing be said about the prophet Jesus? By not accepting the Gospel of Jesus' disciples, aren't you saying that God failed to protect the message of Jesus?
Dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted by faith.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote ishammad Replybullet Posted: Yesterday at 11:15pm
Good question

There is a big difference between a message that was not conveyed correctly in the first place (due to reasons relevant to the messenger himself, like the ones you mention)

and

a people who may later on divert from the message conveyed, or even the message gets corrupted to varying extents with the passage of time due to various reasons.

In the later case here, God didn't take upon himself to preserve it after it has been conveyed, here God is testing the people as to what will they do with the guidance He sent them, for instance:

And they did not appraise Allah with true appraisal when they said, "Allah did not reveal to a human being anything." Say, "Who revealed the Scripture that Moses brought as light and guidance to the people? You [Jews] make it into pages, disclosing [some of] it and concealing much. And you were taught that which you knew not - neither you nor your fathers." Say, "Allah [revealed it]." Then leave them in their [empty] discourse, amusing themselves. (6:91)
------------------------------------------------------

Do you covet [the hope, O believers], that they would believe for you while a party of them used to hear the words of Allah and then distort the Torah after they had understood it while they were knowing?

And when they meet those who believe, they say, "We have believed"; but when they are alone with one another, they say, "Do you talk to them about what Allah has revealed to you so they can argue with you about it before your Lord?" Then will you not reason?

But do they not know that Allah knows what they conceal and what they declare?

And among them are unlettered ones who do not know the Scripture except in wishful thinking, but they are only assuming.

So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn [thereby]. (2:75-79)
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And verily, among them is a party who distort the Book with their tongues (as they read), so that you may think it is from the Book, but it is not from the Book, and they say: "This is from Allah," but it is not from Allah; and they speak a lie against Allah while they know it. (3:78)

Say, "O People of the Scripture, do not exceed limits in your religion beyond the truth and do not follow the inclinations of a people who had gone astray before and misled many and have strayed [themselves] from the soundness of the way." (5:77)

And by the way, Jesus' disciples are praised in the Qur'an.


Edited by ishammad - Yesterday at 11:32pm
Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe. And peace upon the messengers. And praise to Allah, Lord of the worlds. 37:180-182
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