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Done  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Done Replybullet Topic: Lost Suras and verses not in the Quran
    Posted: 19 August 2017 at 4:50pm
Are there any lost Suras or verses that was not included in the Quran like this one?

200 Verses Accidentally Lost From Surah Ahzab 33?

Ubayy bin Ka'b asked people around him,How many verses originally in 33rd chapter of the Quran Surah Ahzab unintentionally got lost forever.

How many verses do you count in Surah Ahzab they replied 72 verses.

Ubayy said to them Surah Ahzab used to contain the same number of verses as Surah Baqarah over 280 verses.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 19 August 2017 at 6:12pm
You are not going to get anywhere with this with muslims.

To them God protected the Quran in the Quran.

Since the Quran is the Truth because The Quran is from God, and we know this because God told us this in the Quran.

Then any account to the contrary is not true.

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Doris Replybullet Posted: 19 August 2017 at 8:42pm
a very scholarly system. I wonder if it could be used in other venues. Product advertising for example, or scientific research.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 20 August 2017 at 3:06am
Originally posted by Done

Are there any lost Suras or verses that was not included in the Quran like this one?

200 Verses Accidentally Lost From Surah Ahzab 33?

Ubayy bin Ka'b asked people around him,How many verses originally in 33rd chapter of the Quran Surah Ahzab unintentionally got lost forever.

How many verses do you count in Surah Ahzab they replied 72 verses.

Ubayy said to them Surah Ahzab used to contain the same number of verses as Surah Baqarah over 280 verses.


What is your reference for this story?


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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Done Replybullet Posted: 20 August 2017 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

Originally posted by Done

Are there any lost Suras or verses that was not included in the Quran like this one?

200 Verses Accidentally Lost From Surah Ahzab 33?

Ubayy bin Ka'b asked people around him,How many verses originally in 33rd chapter of the Quran Surah Ahzab unintentionally got lost forever.

How many verses do you count in Surah Ahzab they replied 72 verses.

Ubayy said to them Surah Ahzab used to contain the same number of verses as Surah Baqarah over 280 verses.


What is your reference for this story?





It is reported from Ismail Ibn Ibrahim fro Ayyub from Naafi from Ibn Umar who said: Let none say I have the whole Quran.

How does he know what all of it is when much of the Quran disappeared?Rather let him say I have acquired what has svived.

Reference: as- Suyuti,Al Itqan fii Ulum al Quran,p.524.

In Sahih Muslim 2286:Abu Musa called 300 Basra reciters who were the best and they said We used to recite a surah but we have forgotten it.

Aisha says during the time of the Prophet the chapter of Parties used to be 200 verses when read When Uthman edited the copies of the Quran only the current verses were recorded 73.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 21 August 2017 at 3:41am
Originally posted by Done



It is reported from Ismail Ibn Ibrahim fro Ayyub from Naafi from Ibn Umar who said: Let none say I have the whole Quran.

How does he know what all of it is when much of the Quran disappeared?Rather let him say I have acquired what has svived.



OK, you may have heard of the term (naskh) in the Qur'an?

1- Naskh means abrogation, and abrogation is mentioned in the Qur'an.

God says in verse (2:106):

"We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?"

https://quran.com/2/106

2- Unlike the Torah which was revealed from God to Prophet Moses, peace be upon him, all at once, God revealed the Qur'an to Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, through Angel Gabriel over a duration of 23 years.

3- During these 23 years, some rulings which God commanded in the early years of the revelation were abrogated before the end (i.e. before the last Ramadan when Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, revised the whole Qur'an twice with Angel Gabriel).

4- Abrogated verses were therefore no longer part of the Qur'an, if they were not included in the last revision in the last month of Ramadan before Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, passed away.

5- Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, memorized the Qur'an and used to recite them to his scribes who wrote them down after their revelation.

6- In addition to this writing, the companions of the Prophet would themselves memorize the verses revealed by heart: so now we had three ways to check and double check the Qur'an: what the Prophet himself memorized directly from Angel Gabriel, what the scribes wrote down and what the companions had memorized from the Prophet.

7- When certain verses were abrogated, the prophet would inform his scribes and the companions who memorized the Qur'an of the changes conveyed to him by Angel Gabriel.

8- In the last month of Ramadan before he passed away, Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, revised the whole Qur'an twice with Angel Gabriel, and his companions memorized from him this final version of the Qur'an revelation, and the scribes wrote it down.

Abrogated verses, like the ones you mentioned from Surah Al-Ahzab and others, were excluded.

9- This final revision of the Qur'an was to become the written version of Qur'an manuscript which Uthman ibn Affan distributed to Muslims in different cities.

Would you be interested to know the details of how this process took place?  


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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Traveller Replybullet Posted: 21 August 2017 at 7:40am
Hi Done.

We have the complete Quran. This is not faith talking but knowledge. To say the Quran is from God is faith talking, in comparison.

How do we know we have the complete Quran? Through a simple method put in place by our prophet and this method will only grow stronger each day, and we have had more than 1430+ years already. This method is known as memorization. If you understand the mechanism of that method, you will know why we can safely say we have the complete Quran today.

Thank you.



Edited by Traveller - 21 August 2017 at 7:42am
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 21 August 2017 at 8:14am
Traveller how do you know the method you have originated with Muhammad. Who told you that?
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Traveller Replybullet Posted: 21 August 2017 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by The_Rock

Traveller how do you know the method you have originated with Muhammad. Who told you that?


Hey man.

The Prophet made the Muslims memorized the Quran, incentivized them to memorize the Quran.

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 21 August 2017 at 12:38pm
Yes, but how do you know this? What is your source?
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Traveller Replybullet Posted: 21 August 2017 at 11:51pm
Originally posted by The_Rock

Yes, but how do you know this? What is your source?


I don't get your question.

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Traveller Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2017 at 3:46am
Originally posted by The_Rock

Yes, but how do you know this? What is your source?


Anyhow, we will find plenty in the Hadith the prophet telling us to memorize the Quran or the rewards that come with it. That's what I mean by the prophet incentivizing us to be a hafiz, the one who memorized the Quran.

We can take 10 hafiz today, lock them up in a room and task them to produce the Quran, giving them nothing but blank papers and pens. In less than a week, they will have the Quran and you will see that it will be exactly identical.

I'm sure you've heard Muslims saying "God protects the Quran from corruption". That's not just talk. We can show you how too. The prophet put a simple method in place and it has guarded the Quran ever since.

Btw, the word for the memorizers, 'hafiz' in Arabic, means 'guard' or 'protector'.








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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2017 at 4:16am
Ah so you know this from Hadith?

Is that the same source that says the Quran was lost?
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Traveller Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2017 at 4:34am
Originally posted by The_Rock

Ah so you know this from Hadith?

Is that the same source that says the Quran was lost?


What was spoken in that Hadith is for scholars to interpret.

We should look at what we have today with us, the Quran and the Hafiz. Both tangibles. Use both to determine the pristineness of the Quran.



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