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The_Rock
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2017 at 7:51am
i think itís quite plain for everyone to see. No need for a scholar to understand what is said there.
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Traveller  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Traveller Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2017 at 8:32am
Originally posted by The_Rock

i think itís quite plain for everyone to see. No need for a scholar to understand what is said there.


Are you thinking they spoke in English.



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The_Rock
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2017 at 10:21am
I'm not sure what your point is. We are reading a translation. If nothing can be translated, why bother?
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Traveller Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2017 at 10:35am
Hadith is not for you or for me. It's not for the common people. This is the reason why the Church at first did not allow the common people to read the Bible.

Our Hadiths didn't come from God. It didn't come from the prophet even. It is not meant for you and me. I will leave it to the scholars. It's their domain.

The Quran is from God and it is meant for you and I. We are the intended target audience. It's tangible.

I want to stick to just the Quran for now, between the two of us.



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The_Rock
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2017 at 10:44am
I'm not sure how you can use the Quran to validate the completeness of the Quran.

That's not possible.

You can't say the Quran is complete because the Quran says it is complete.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Traveller Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2017 at 11:20am
I mentioned two things Rock.

1. Memorizers
2. Science of recitation
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Traveller Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2017 at 11:45am
Are you guys catching the solar eclipse?

I'm on the opposite side of the hemisphere and it's night time now. No sun. :D
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The_Rock
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2017 at 12:03pm
I don't see how either of these things verifies completeness.

Memorizers validate consistency, and to a common source accuracy.

But you cannot say with any certainty that the Quran is complete.

You havent produced any evidence of that.
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The_Rock
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2017 at 12:05pm
I don't know what the science of recitation even begins to mean.

I suspect that science does not mean anything to you in your culture and you use the term to give it validity.

I believe you mean the "knowledge" of recitation?

I can't be sure since you use the word in a manner with which I am unfamiliar.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Traveller Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2017 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by The_Rock

I don't see how either of these things verifies completeness.

Memorizers validate consistency, and to a common source accuracy.

But you cannot say with any certainty that the Quran is complete.

You havent produced any evidence of that.


The institution of the memorizers was started by the prophet. And once it has started at the time of the prophet, it will do the job and still be doing it till today.

No gaps or interruptions in the timeline.

That's how we can be certain we have the complete Quran. The memorizers.

As for the science of recitation. It is the precise rules of recitation that reciters of the Quran will be able to tell you about. With this, we are able to automatically and immediately detect an error.

You know what Rock? You should go for a Quranic recitation class. Learn the alphabets and the basic rules of recitation. This will make you understand why we Muslims have 100% faith in matters regarding the Quran, namely it's pristineness.

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The_Rock
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2017 at 1:14pm
I suggest you look up the word science to understand what it means.

I suspect you are translating the word ilm - and in this case ilm is not science.
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The_Rock
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2017 at 1:15pm
It is getting tedious to reiterate this - How do you know that the institution of memorizers was started by the prophet?

From where are you drawing this information? What is the source?

Edited by The_Rock - 22 August 2017 at 1:15pm
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Traveller Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2017 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by The_Rock

It is getting tedious to reiterate this - How do you know that the institution of memorizers was started by the prophet?

From where are you drawing this information? What is the source?


Now you're going into faith. Remember I mentioned to you earlier what comes from faith and what comes from knowledge?

To say the Quran came from God via the prophet is faith.
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The_Rock
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2017 at 1:28pm
No, Im asking you how do you know that the Quran you have is what Muhammad recited?
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