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Al-Cordoby  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2017 at 5:23am
Originally posted by Doris

What did evolve from one era to the next were some details in the Divine Law, as the human race matured going from one stage to the next, and His Guidance to all believers was very clear:The message you receive from the latest prophet supersedes the previous revelation"

"as the human race has matured"?

What the heck does that mean? Matured in what way?



Matured in many ways, Doris.

Will give you an example:

The very first generation of human beings on earth, Adam, Eve and their children, faced a situation which our human race today does not face:

The sons and daughters of Adam and Eve did not have the choice we have today to get married, simply because there were no other human beings around.

Solution?

The Divine Law for that first generation allowed brothers and sisters to marry but with one condition: that they were not from the same pregnancy (i.e. they could not marry their twins).

This ruling for their generation allowed the human race to multiply, but was later abrogated.

When the problem no longer existed some years later, the Divine Law made it prohibited for brothers and sisters to get married.

The faith remained the same
(belief in One God), but this legal detail and ruling changed.

Another example of change in the Divine Law was at the time of Jesus, peace be upon him

God made lawful some of the restrictions in the Jewish Law, like restrictions on the Sabbath for example...

Get the point?


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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Non Believer Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2017 at 10:53am
Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

In order to say you believe in God, you should first be convinced that God exists.And that's an intellectual journey of research, thought and reflection which should continue till reaching a conclusive answer.Rome was not build in one day ...Was it?
Yes, and after my intellectual journey, I've reached the conclusive answer that God does not exist, as have hundreds of millions of people, maybe billions.

You won't accept this and your religion doesn't accept this, as I've pointed out about 109:6: Do you really think that I would be happy to have this man as my neighbour?

http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/tafseer/tafheem/sura109-aya6.html
Originally posted by Al-Maududi

This is not a message of tolerance to the disbelievers, but a declaration of immunity, disgust with and dissociation from them as long as they are disbelievers. Its object is to disappoint them absolutely and finally that in the matter of religion the party of Allah's Messenger and his followers would ever come to terms with them. This same declaration of immunity and expression of disgust has been made in the Makki Surahs revealed after this Surah successively. Thus, in Surah Yunus, it was said: "If these people deny you, say to them: 1 am responsible for my deeds and you are responsible for yours: you are not accountable for what I do, and I am not accountable for what you do." (v. 41). Then further on in the same Surah it was said: "O Prophet, say: O mankind, if you are still in doubt concerning my Faith, know that I do not worship those whom you worship beside Allah, but I worship that Allah alone, Who has the power to cause your death." (v. 104). In Surah Ash-Shu'ara it was said: "If they disobey you, tell them: I am not responsible for what you do." (v. 216). In Surah Saba it was said: "Say to them: you will not be questioned for the errors we have committed, nor shall we be answerable for what you are doing. Say, our Lord will gather us together, then He will judge between us rightly." (w. 25-26). In Surah az-Zumar: "Tell them plainly: O my people, do whatever you will, so shall 1. Soon you shall come to know as to whom comes the disgraceful torment and who gets the enduring punishment." (w. 39-40). Then the same lesson was taught in Madinah to aII the Muslims: "There is indeed an excellent example for you in Abraham and his companions when they said to their people plainly: `We have nothing to do with you and your gods, whom you worship beside God: we have renounced you and there has arisen between us and you enmity and hatred for ever, until you believe in Allah, the One." (Al-Mumtahinah: 4). These continuous explanations of the Qur'an do not leave any room whatever for the doubt that the verse Lakum dims kum wa liya din dces not mean: "You may go on following your religion and allow me to follow mine", but it is the kind of declaration made in Surah Az-Zumar: 14: "O Prophet, say to them: I shall serve Allah alone, making my religion sincerely His. As for you, you may serve whomever you please beside Him." (v. 14).



Edited by Non Believer - 30 September 2017 at 10:54am
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Al-Cordoby  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2017 at 11:11am
It's your choice NB

And your responsibility, not mine.

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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Non Believer Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2017 at 11:53am
Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

It's your choice NBAnd your responsibility, not mine.

The choice I'm wrestling with is not whether or not I should convert to Islam. There's no debate there.

The choice is whether or not I should join anti-immigration groups which specifically targets Muslims and whether even that would be enough. Eight months ago, I strongly opposed Trump's "Muslim ban". Today, my view is 180 degrees the opposite. This site has been instrumental in changing my view. The Muslims posting here have to take their share of the responsibility for my change in view. It is based on the attitudes I see here.

Do I want people like the radical in that quote to be living as my neighbour? Do I want as neighbours a cult of hypocrites who answer criticism of the violence in their scriptures and in their history by pointing out that they also preach peace, who are able to justify murder over an insult or over a perception of "oppression" or "corruption"?

Europeans fought hard to keep this cult out of Europe. Why do we now just open our doors to them when they are adamant that they have not changed and will never change? It makes no sense.

I will be ready to listen to you when you are ready to change what you are saying. That's how I see what is your responsibility and what is mine.
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2017 at 3:30pm
For each their faith, NB

Live and let others live in peace

(For you is your religion, and for me is my religion) (109:6)


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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Non Believer Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2017 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by Al-Cordoby

For each their faith, NBLive and let others live in peace(For you is your religion, and for me is my religion) (109:6)

You continue to quote 109:6 even after I point out the tafsir that says "This is not a message of tolerance to the disbelievers, but a declaration of immunity, disgust with and dissociation from them as long as they are disbelievers."?

These are the words of a Muslim cleric; not an Islamophobe.

If you want me to think about this verse in a different way then you'll have to confront these words.

Edited by Non Believer - 30 September 2017 at 4:58pm
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Shenango Replybullet Posted: 02 October 2017 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by Non Believer

I'm interested in understanding your worldview. "If you all depend on Allah.." has implications which are in stark opposition to an atheist's worldview. Why shouldn't I question it?


If you're genuinely interested, you'll need to read up on Islam. But what you really lack is a primer on theology. You really don't understand its basics. It's taken me some time to see that, but now I truly understand that's a lot of where your problem lies. There's nothing wrong with intelligent, knowledgeable questioning, but emphasis on those two adjectives. You're not allowed to question anything you don't even have a fundamental grasp of. That's just common courtesy.

Originally posted by Non Believer

The implication is that "real" Muslims that I might meet aren't anything like the Muslims posting here


No, that's not what I'm implying. What I am implying is that human beings are complex individuals. Without seeing that you are prone to demonize and dehumanize us, as it is becoming clear you're passively sliding into.

Originally posted by Non Believer

Please don't blame me for either the historic reality that Muhammad led an army against all those who opposed him


I do blame you for lying, yes, because that isn't true.

Originally posted by Non Believer

You can believe in God and be a murderer. It's a fact. Muhammad slaughtered at least one tribe. It's in your history; it's not our fabrication. Jesus never did this.


But Moses (AS) did. Did Moses (AS) believe in God? Now what? What are you going to do with your worthless argument?

Originally posted by Non Believer

Now tell me this: Do you really think those two Hadiths would in any way resonate with me or inspire me?


I didn't post them to inspire you. I posted them to counter your point that Muslims have anything to gain in terms of spiritual teaching from reading the Bible. Isn't this what you were whining about?

You don't seem to understand that when Islam claims to be the final revelation, that there's some thought that's been put into saying that, and what that entails. Your blindness to that depth of meaning is what kills me. No wonder you see our faith as pointless.
"I mean, brothers and sisters, the appointed time has grown short; from now on, let even those who have wives be as though they had none"--Paul c. 55 CE
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