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Traveller  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Traveller Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2017 at 11:56am
I blame the evil for your hostility towards me Damo. I don't blame you and I certainly don't blame myself.





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Non Believer  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Non Believer Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2017 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by Traveller

Christians are not the enemies.

Muslims are not the enemies.

Jews are not the enemies.

The enemy is evil.

What we see today is surely evil vs evil, cloak in religion.

Oh yes, Magister is right. Muslims are the people today getting it left right and center from that same evil. It's expected. We are the only people who are still keeping to the law religiously, something also taught by Prophet Jesus, pbuh.

We Muslims must suck it up. There is nothing much we can do about it. We are the new target, the only target left. The rest have fallen.

:)
Hi Traveller, there have been a few posts since this one, but I'd like to respond to this one.

Let's agree that the enemy is evil.

Let's agree that religion is a cloak for evil.

Looking at the original post, who's to say that the perpetrators were not "keeping to the law religiously" of a holy prophet who revealed this behaviour to them? You see the problem with relying on revelations? Maybe being a strict follower of a religion is itself evil. What matters is the consequences to the community when people follow a religion or any other ideology.

Muslims are "getting it" from non-Muslims because the ideology does, in fact, support violent behaviour. Muslims need to be honest and to stop denying this. What Muslims do about this once they stop denying it is problematic, to say the least. As you've said, the only recourse within Islam is to delve deeper into the scriptures. Yet, the Islamic scriptures contain much violence and justifications for violence against others. No, this isn't a new problem at all.

What I didn't understand about Islam before joining this forum is the "all or nothing" nature of Islam. Either you accept every word of these ancient books that were compiled after the death of this legendary figure, or you reject it all. That's sad, really.

No, the answer is not burying your head in your scriptures, but opening your mind to all sources of learning and being willing to criticise these sources. Both the New Testament and the Talmud are excellent sources. It's a shame that Muslims do their best to ignore them. I wish I knew more about them and also more about Far Eastern sources.

You should be grateful to live in a place where so many different schools of thought come together! It's a wonderful opportunity!
Men do you harm either because they fear you or because they hate you.
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Magister
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2017 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by Doris

Be that as it may, I don't hear of many murderers screaming "Jesus is the greatest! I kill in the name of Jesus and his Father!" as they run down pedestrians in their SUVs.


1. Deanna Laney murders

2. Isabel Martinez murders

3. Pamela Christensen murders

4. Mary B. Lockett's biblical sacrifice of her daughter

These are just SOME in just ONE country in the last 24 months where Christianity was used to justify the murders of innocent children. At least three of the ones I included here would be also found under "mass murders".

Funny how even though the primary motives involve killing for Christ, there are still Americans like you who are completely unaware that these things occur as frequently and in such volumes as they actually do.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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Magister
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2017 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by Mad Cat

Originally posted by NB

I don't get why this thread was started.

Extreme desperation NB!
In light of the constant reports of Muslims committing atrocities all over the world in the name of Islam Magister here feels the need to show that Muslims are not the only ones committing such horrible acts. Even though the article does not mention Jesus, the Bible, Christianity or Christians even once, Magister tries to shoe-horn in the idea that this act was indeed done by Christians, no doubt in the name of Christianity. He should be embarrassed by his actions but shows no shame. No doubt he will add this to his list of bad examples of Christianity along with the often cited KKK (who are famous for burning crosses and churches) and the LRA (who violate just about every one of the Ten Commandments they claim to uphold).

The double standards become apparent when you realise that Magister would never accept such a lame argument against Islam. He rejects massive groups of Quran reciting, Muhammad following Muslims when it suits him but is willing to suggest that an isolated slaying is likely to be motivated by Christianity only because the country it was committed in is supposed to be majority Christian. The fact that he had to ignore the pagan motivation for the killing and the anti-Christian response to the ‘crime’ only adds to his woes.

Desperation, double-standards and shamelessness!


You know what I'd consider extreme desperation?

A grown man who has such anger against another religion in his heart that he has no courage to deal with it in person like most men would, but would rather show up anonymously on a peaceful religious forum to act passive-aggressively to those "evil Muslims". Yeah, you're really sticking it to us! lol

That's extreme desperation. And there's not just one of you.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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Magister
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2017 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by Damo808

As I said it's hard to take Muslims here seriously.

Muslims are getting it left right and centre mostly from other Muslims.

Your holy places shrines and mosques are not being blown up by Christians Buddhists or Jews but by your co-religionists who believe they are following your Allah. That is were the evil you speak of goes about its business in the guise of religion. The rest of us have to put up with listening to deniers like yourself to such realities. The only people who have fallen are those who have died at their hand.



Makes me wonder - why are you still here? And if you can't understand OP or even Traveller's post, then you're either too incompetent to hold a discussion at this level or you're being dishonest.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Non Believer Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2017 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by Magister


Originally posted by Doris

Be that as it may, I don't hear of many murderers screaming "Jesus is the greatest! I kill in the name of Jesus and his Father!" as they run down pedestrians in their SUVs.
1. Deanna Laney murders2. Isabel Martinez murders3. Pamela Christensen murders4. Mary B. Lockett's biblical sacrifice of her daughterThese are just SOME in just ONE country in the last 24 months where Christianity was used to justify the murders of innocent children. At least three of the ones I included here would be also found under "mass murders".Funny how even though the primary motives involve killing for Christ, there are still Americans like you who are completely unaware that these things occur as frequently and in such volumes as they actually do.
WOW   That's extreme desperation.

I thought this topic related to ethnic violence and the religious factors contributing to it today.
Men do you harm either because they fear you or because they hate you.
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Doris  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Doris Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2017 at 7:59pm
Magister, do you think we can't Google?

All the women you list were mothers who killed their children. (How did you forget Andrea Yates?) Only the last seemed to have any Biblical reason, and it was certainly not related to Christianity.

All of these women were judged by the courts to be insane.

Surely you can see the difference between these poor women and their pathetic children and people who deliberately attempt to kill large numbers of total strangers in order to please their god.

Have you ever seen the movie, The Rapture? Interesting perspective on infanticide.

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Traveller  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Traveller Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2017 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by Non Believer

Originally posted by Traveller

Christians are not the enemies.

Muslims are not the enemies.

Jews are not the enemies.

The enemy is evil.

What we see today is surely evil vs evil, cloak in religion.

Oh yes, Magister is right. Muslims are the people today getting it left right and center from that same evil. It's expected. We are the only people who are still keeping to the law religiously, something also taught by Prophet Jesus, pbuh.

We Muslims must suck it up. There is nothing much we can do about it. We are the new target, the only target left. The rest have fallen.

:)
Hi Traveller, there have been a few posts since this one, but I'd like to respond to this one.

Let's agree that the enemy is evil.

Let's agree that religion is a cloak for evil.

Looking at the original post, who's to say that the perpetrators were not "keeping to the law religiously" of a holy prophet who revealed this behaviour to them? You see the problem with relying on revelations? Maybe being a strict follower of a religion is itself evil. What matters is the consequences to the community when people follow a religion or any other ideology.

Muslims are "getting it" from non-Muslims because the ideology does, in fact, support violent behaviour. Muslims need to be honest and to stop denying this. What Muslims do about this once they stop denying it is problematic, to say the least. As you've said, the only recourse within Islam is to delve deeper into the scriptures. Yet, the Islamic scriptures contain much violence and justifications for violence against others. No, this isn't a new problem at all.

What I didn't understand about Islam before joining this forum is the "all or nothing" nature of Islam. Either you accept every word of these ancient books that were compiled after the death of this legendary figure, or you reject it all. That's sad, really.

No, the answer is not burying your head in your scriptures, but opening your mind to all sources of learning and being willing to criticise these sources. Both the New Testament and the Talmud are excellent sources. It's a shame that Muslims do their best to ignore them. I wish I knew more about them and also more about Far Eastern sources.

You should be grateful to live in a place where so many different schools of thought come together! It's a wonderful opportunity!


Yes, I like all sources of information. I accept Jewish scriptures as scriptures albeit daif scriptures but still worthy of studies. Btw, it is from Jewish scriptures we get the NT.

I will repeat myself. This new phenomenon, the madness we are seeing today made even some of our own scholars scratching their heads. And some of them came up with theories we can now reject. Similarly rejected too is the one you put forth in that post of yours.

As for our prophet, we know he is free of any blame for this madness. We know him better than our own fathers. Please note the word I use is 'know' and not 'believe'. You too can know what we know about Prophet Muhammad, saw.




Edited by Traveller - 13 October 2017 at 11:27pm
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Magister
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 14 October 2017 at 3:57am
Originally posted by Non Believer

Originally posted by Magister


Originally posted by Doris

Be that as it may, I don't hear of many murderers screaming "Jesus is the greatest! I kill in the name of Jesus and his Father!" as they run down pedestrians in their SUVs.
1. Deanna Laney murders2. Isabel Martinez murders3. Pamela Christensen murders4. Mary B. Lockett's biblical sacrifice of her daughterThese are just SOME in just ONE country in the last 24 months where Christianity was used to justify the murders of innocent children. At least three of the ones I included here would be also found under "mass murders".Funny how even though the primary motives involve killing for Christ, there are still Americans like you who are completely unaware that these things occur as frequently and in such volumes as they actually do.
WOW   That's extreme desperation.

I thought this topic related to ethnic violence and the religious factors contributing to it today.


Calm your horses there, big guy - I was addressing Doris's remark.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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Magister
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 14 October 2017 at 3:58am
Originally posted by Doris

Magister, do you think we can't Google?

All the women you list were mothers who killed their children. (How did you forget Andrea Yates?) Only the last seemed to have any Biblical reason, and it was certainly not related to Christianity.

All of these women were judged by the courts to be insane.

Surely you can see the difference between these poor women and their pathetic children and people who deliberately attempt to kill large numbers of total strangers in order to please their god.

Have you ever seen the movie, The Rapture? Interesting perspective on infanticide.



I actually see a double standard of when Muslims commit crimes for religious reasons and when Christians do the very same thing for religious reasons.

Hmmmm

Hypocrisy at its finest.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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Doris  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Doris Replybullet Posted: 14 October 2017 at 8:05am
The hypocrisy is that there is no evidence any of these women committed their despicable crimes for religious reasons.

That's what you want to claim, isn't it? Women murdering their children because they (and their children) are Christian?

Your evidence is a little scant, don't you think?
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Magister
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 15 October 2017 at 1:13am
They said it themselves!
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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Doris  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Doris Replybullet Posted: 15 October 2017 at 10:01am
They?
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 19 October 2017 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by Doris

They?


Bump.
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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