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Magister
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Topic: Atheist Terror Strikes Again
    Posted: 06 November 2017 at 1:52pm
It's funny how people want to identify "Islamic" terror but they're quick to turn Christian terror into an "exception" or not the same because it wasn't "orchestrated" or some other silly excuse.

Yesterday, an atheist who would preach atheism online went into a church and shot up 27 people.

Last week, I stepped up as a Muslim to condemn the "Muslim" terrorist for what he did.

Will the atheists take up the same responsibility and condemn their fellow atheists for killing theists?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5053013/Devin-Kelley-outcast-preached-atheism.html
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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Non Believer  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Non Believer Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2017 at 2:47pm
Sure, I can concede that this act was at least partially motivated by hatred for Christians who actively repress atheism. Atheists are the most oppressed people in many parts of the world.

We even had an incident days ago where the leader of the official opposition is demanding that the Prime Minister of Canada apologise for supporting the right of the Governor General, a scientist, to question creation. We're free to believe in God, but we are not free to not believe in God.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/scheer-trudeau-payette-divine-intervention-1.4385895

I'm not aware of any atheist organizations in North America which actively advocate for the murder of theists, nor which have a history of murdering theists. That's where your equivalency falls down.

No doubt there are, in fact, such atheists organizations, and we condemn them when they surface. Because they are not protected by claims of religious freedom, these organizations can be shutdown and their literature can be banned.
Men do you harm either because they fear you or because they hate you.
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2017 at 5:41pm
Magister do you see this as a one off or a global phenomenon ?

Should we start a thread recording terrorist activity globally by the day and see if we can see any trends emerge and what groups are out there and where and who constitute the biggest threat to not just Christians but all members of society ?

One almost gets the impression from your threads on these subjects of late that there's no greater problem with one group over another and we know that's simply not the case. It swings heavy in one direction.

There is no atheist founder who prescribed the killing of believers after all.

out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Magister
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2017 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by Damo808

Magister do you see this as a one off or a global phenomenon ?

Should we start a thread recording terrorist activity globally by the day and see if we can see any trends emerge and what groups are out there and where and who constitute the biggest threat to not just Christians but all members of society ?

One almost gets the impression from your threads on these subjects of late that there's no greater problem with one group over another and we know that's simply not the case. It swings heavy in one direction.

There is no atheist founder who prescribed the killing of believers after all.



Yeah, I agree, this might be a great idea to start such a thread.

But please do so from the year 1900 or earlier.

Thanks
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Magister
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2017 at 7:22pm
This might shed some light:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Non Believer Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2017 at 9:59pm
Originally posted by Damo808

There is no atheist founder who prescribed the killing of believers after all.
Regrettably, this isn't true. There have been atheist organisations that have prescribed very stringent measures against the religious, for example, the League of the Militant Godless in Stalinist Russia.

Atheism isn't itself an ideology. An ideology might be rooted in atheism. An ideology has to be judged on its merits, not whether it is atheist or theist.

One the most absurd logical failures that atheists suffer from is that, since Stalinists were atheist, atheist are Stalinists.

There is one and only one thing you can say about an atheist... they don't believe in God. That's all! They can be left-wing, right-wing, pacifist, militant, violent extremist, etc.

So... are you claiming that this murderer is part of an atheist conspiracy to murder Christians? It's not impossible; I just haven't seen any evidence of militant atheism in America. Therefore, other than an individual's act, what is there to condemn?
Men do you harm either because they fear you or because they hate you.
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 07 November 2017 at 4:50am
Originally posted by Non Believer

Originally posted by Damo808

There is no atheist founder who prescribed the killing of believers after all.
Regrettably, this isn't true. There have been atheist organisations that have prescribed very stringent measures against the religious, for example, the League of the Militant Godless in Stalinist Russia.

Atheism isn't itself an ideology. An ideology might be rooted in atheism. An ideology has to be judged on its merits, not whether it is atheist or theist.

One the most absurd logical failures that atheists suffer from is that, since Stalinists were atheist, atheist are Stalinists.

There is one and only one thing you can say about an atheist... they don't believe in God. That's all! They can be left-wing, right-wing, pacifist, militant, violent extremist, etc.

So... are you claiming that this murderer is part of an atheist conspiracy to murder Christians? It's not impossible; I just haven't seen any evidence of militant atheism in America. Therefore, other than an individual's act, what is there to condemn?


The point I make is simply that airport security and national security agencies around the entire world are not on the lookout for people who are adherents of the League of the Militant Godless.

Originally posted by Magister


Yeah, I agree, this might be a great idea to start such a thread.But please do so from the year 1900 or earlier.Thanks


I wasn't speaking retrospectively. I'm talking about from today forward, the killing or attempted killing of people around the world due to religious motivation
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Non Believer Replybullet Posted: 07 November 2017 at 11:08am
Originally posted by Damo808

The point I make is simply that airport security and national security agencies around the entire world are not on the lookout for people who are adherents of the League of the Militant Godless.
There may well be organisations like that on security watch lists. It's possible.

My point is that atheism is not an ideology and cannot be put on a watch list. The perpetrator's atheism is not, by itself, an indicator.

Many posters on this site have insisted that Islam is a complete and monolithic ideology. Therefore, if a Muslim involves himself in terror, then it is an indicator that the ideology supports terrorism and proponents of the ideology should be put on security watch lists.

There's a big difference between "Atheist Terror Strikes Again" and "Islamic Terror Strikes Again".
Men do you harm either because they fear you or because they hate you.
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Magister
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 07 November 2017 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by Damo808


I wasn't speaking retrospectively. I'm talking about from today forward, the killing or attempted killing of people around the world due to religious motivation.


Well, this is a bit suspicious. It seems like you're attempting to get me to agree with cherry-picking data in order to give a dishonest answer. Tell me it isn't so, Damo. You specifically said: "Should we start a thread recording terrorist activity globally by the day and see if we can see any trends emerge and what groups are out there and where and who constitute the biggest threat to not just Christians but all members of society ? "

So, to this I say, yeah, let's start to when terrorism was said to have started by using the modern definitions or even a little later (second half of the 19th century to the early 20th century). The more data, the more likely we are to get an honest look at trends, right?

Or are you still going to try to be dishonest and try to convince me to be dishonest with you?

Sorry, but my religion forbids me from being dishonest
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Magister
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 07 November 2017 at 8:01pm
I wonder if I'm the only one that notices that while other non-Muslims might have serious beefs with Islam, you rehash the same arguments for years and years with the only goal of vilifying the Deen. I mean, heck, you even defended atheism more than the atheists would just to keep Islam at the bottom of the barrel.

On the authority of Abu Saeed al-Khudri (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah say, “Whoever of you sees an evil must then change it with his hand. If he is not able to do so, then [he must change it ] with his tongue. And if he is not able to do so, then [he must change it] with his heart. And that is the slightest [effect of] faith.” (Recorded in Muslim)

I did my part.
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Damo808  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 07 November 2017 at 10:46pm
Originally posted by Damo808


I wasn't speaking retrospectively. I'm talking about from today forward, the killing or attempted killing of people around the world due to religious motivation.

Originally posted by Magister

Well, this is a bit suspicious. It seems like you're attempting to get me to agree with cherry-picking data in order to give a dishonest answer. Tell me it isn't so, Damo. You specifically said: 
Originally posted by Damo808

Should we start a thread recording terrorist activity globally by the day and can see any trends emerge if we and what groups are out there and where and who constitute the biggest threat to not just Christians but all members of society ?
 
Originally posted by Magister

So, to this I say, yeah, let's start to when terrorism was said to have started by using the modern definitions or even a little later (second half of the 19th century to the early 20th century). The more data, the more likely we are to get an honest look at trends, right?

Or are you still going to try to be dishonest and try to convince me to be dishonest with you?
 
 


 

 To "start" "recording" is to begin to register events as they occur. Otherwise it would just be compiling material that has already been recorded.
 
 In that context therefore "by the day" is to relate it here on said thread as regularly as daily if such events occur daily that meet the criteria of agreed motive. .
 
And "emerge" is the conclusion of the evaluation of the pattern of behaviour and who it relates to and to what degree.
 
 And groups that "are out there" specifically relates to the here and present and not 'were out there' as it would be if it was presented as you try here to protray.
 
 This .. on top of my initial response to your OP in which i said :
 
Originally posted by Damo808

One almost gets the impression from your threads on these subjects of late that there's no greater problem with one group over another and we know that's simply not the case. It swings heavy in one direction. 
 
Magister i have no problem. what way you wish to proceed . You say I lie , and i'm dishonest that i coyly attempted to set parameters to the discussion when as i have demonstrated i was speaking of the present as indicated in my initial response to the OP. if you cannot follow the context of those addressing your thread (like them or loathe them and their opinions) that is not their problem.
 


Originally posted by Magister

Sorry, but my religion forbids me from being dishonest

 
 Does it really.. ? mines too..


Edited by Damo808 - 07 November 2017 at 11:01pm
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
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Non Believer  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Non Believer Replybullet Posted: 08 November 2017 at 11:12am
Originally posted by Magister

I did my part.
You started a thread with an absurd premise and a questionable motive. You then avoided any serious discussion. Well done. May Allah be pleased with you.
Men do you harm either because they fear you or because they hate you.
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Corinna  
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Corinna Replybullet Posted: 08 November 2017 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by Magister

It's funny how people want to identify "Islamic" terror but they're quick to turn Christian terror into an "exception" or not the same because it wasn't "orchestrated" or some other silly excuse.

Yesterday, an atheist who would preach atheism online went into a church and shot up 27 people.

Last week, I stepped up as a Muslim to condemn the "Muslim" terrorist for what he did.

Will the atheists take up the same responsibility and condemn their fellow atheists for killing theists?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5053013/Devin-Kelley-outcast-preached-atheism.html


Actually, that individual was mentally ill, seriously so.  Proper puts were not exercised to quell his very psychotic behavior. 
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