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InterReligious Dialogue
 Whyislam.org Forums : General : InterReligious Dialogue
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The_Rock
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bullet Posted: 06 December 2017 at 5:25pm
To be perfectly honest, I think muslims at this point should just accept this and move on.

But you know the ummah, always spoiling for a fight, even one that is lost....

And the de facto truth is that jerusalem in an israeli city, all of jerusalem, not just west jerusalem.

Edited by The_Rock - 06 December 2017 at 5:35pm
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Corinna  
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bullet Posted: 06 December 2017 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by The_Rock

why?? because the US moved the consulate?

Dont be daft, jews always understood that jerusalem was the capital.


Of course, we have always known where our capital is.  Today the US officially recognized that - a first for history. 

I am not daft, the consulate has not yet physically been moved.  That will take time as there is a hotel that to be renovated that will become the physical embassy.  It's a step in the right direction unless there are more riots and terror attacks perpetuated against Israeli's (Arabs, Muslims, Christians, secular whatever and Jews) that slow down the work necessary.  Meanwhile, there is much under cover work to be done by Americans to make the area safe for them.   

It's a "tribal thang". don'cha know?
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The_Rock
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bullet Posted: 06 December 2017 at 8:10pm
Course it's a tribal thang based on a mass delusion that God appeared to 3 million middle easterners who in reality were suffering from a heat stroke.
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The_Rock
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bullet Posted: 06 December 2017 at 10:23pm
Jitka you should understand that Europeans took your religion and perfected it. That is why you came to live amongst us, like us.

So now we are one people. This tribal behaviour is gross.
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Corinna  
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bullet Posted: 07 December 2017 at 7:03am
Originally posted by The_Rock

Course it's a tribal thang based on a mass delusion that God appeared to 3 million middle easterners who in reality were suffering from a heat stroke.


Camels came to the rescue.

Actually, the "tribal" thing with Jews dribbled down and dissipated completely over the centuries as mankind progressed.  Consult Talmud.
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The_Rock
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bullet Posted: 07 December 2017 at 9:07am
But seriously when I hear isrealis talk about the Arabs, I think of the Nazi videos about jewry, the similarities are striking.

Oh... They are filthy etc.

What's filthy is the tribalism.
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Corinna  
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bullet Posted: 07 December 2017 at 9:45am
Originally posted by The_Rock

But seriously when I hear isrealis talk about the Arabs, I think of the Nazi videos about jewry, the similarities are striking.

Oh... They are filthy etc.

What's filthy is the tribalism.


How many 'Israeli's' have you actually had these sorts of conversations with?

To wit:   Before the world of truth can come, the world of lies must disappear" - Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak Kook




Edited by Corinna - 07 December 2017 at 10:03am
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The_Rock
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bullet Posted: 07 December 2017 at 10:49am
I was in Israel during the start of the second intifada. Let me tell you, I heard a lot.

Regardless of what you believe I am married to a jewess and have Jewish children.

I've heard family and friends talk openly.

Although that may be more an Ashkenazi thing.

I think the spheredim may see things differently.

And then there is the political party element...ah likudniks.

Edited by The_Rock - 07 December 2017 at 10:56am
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Magister
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bullet Posted: 08 December 2017 at 10:02am
Originally posted by Non Believer

Originally posted by Magister

I agree with the Rock - there's the issue of tribalism here, and the Israelis are fighting for their tribe, and the Arabs for theirs. We're never going to get anywhere as long as they keep seeing each other as the enemy just for being the other nationality, or whatever. Time to move on now.
I've asked several times how you think we can move on and you never reply.

In my view, this tribalism that you are describing is entrenched in the Qur'an itself. There are verses which explicitly warn of allying with non-Muslims. With such a divisive ideology, how is it possible to "move on now"?

Brother, you need to get real.


Couple of things:

First, the issue with Israel is mainly between Arabs and Israelis, not necessarily Muslims and Jews. Yes, the majority of Arabs are Muslims, but a significant minority are Christians or atheists or merely nominal Muslims. On the Arab side, this is more of a political beef than a religious one.

Not so with the other team. It's more religious than political. While for the Arabs, it's their land because all their ancestors lived on it, for the Jews, it's the Promised land from the Creator of the universe, and no compromises can be made.

The second thing is, you are misunderstanding the Quran. There were multiple times when Muslims were instructed to take non-Muslims as friends and allies. Even with the pages of the Quran itself we can read instances of the Muslims being commanded to honor the alliances/treaties they hold with non-Muslim tribes.

You have to realize that while we do believe that we are the only ones on the correct religion, we do not believe we should avoid living in harmony with members of other religions. The Quran even has the best response for someone with whom you disagree about religion: "To you be your religion, and to be mine"... in other words, the Muslim is commanded to 'agree to disagree' for the sake of peace.

Please, ask questions if you're still confused. We are here to clarify things for you because for some people, the Quran is a very difficult scripture to grasp. It takes a great deal of fluid knowledge and not just crystallized knowledge.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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Magister
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bullet Posted: 08 December 2017 at 10:05am
Originally posted by Corinna



Originally posted by The_Rock

But seriously when I hear isrealis talk about the Arabs, I think of the Nazi videos about jewry, the similarities are striking.

Oh... They are filthy etc.

What's filthy is the tribalism.
How many 'Israeli's' have you actually had these sorts of conversations with? To wit: Before the world of truth can come, the world of lies must disappear" - Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak Kook


A long time ago, I sat next to an Israeli student like this. He was probably a bit worse, though. He had no idea I was a Muslim, and he starts ranting to me under his breath just how bad Islam is, how the Quran tells the Muslims to kill everyone and show no mercy, and how the Arabs are savages. Best believe he turned red when he learned I was a convert to the religion.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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Corinna  
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bullet Posted: 08 December 2017 at 11:42am
Originally posted by Magister

[QUOTE=Corinna]

A long time ago, I sat next to an Israeli student like this. He was probably a bit worse, though. He had no idea I was a Muslim, and he starts ranting to me under his breath just how bad Islam is, how the Quran tells the Muslims to kill everyone and show no mercy, and how the Arabs are savages. Best believe he turned red when he learned I was a convert to the religion.


Yes, I am well aware of people like you mention and have had to deal with  them in several areas over the years.  Fakaktah!  On the reverse, there are so many out there of  different beliefs who do get along, live together, teach each other, share, prosper and grow mentally and spiritually together. 

Yet, still the problem is terrorists who murder and destroy just to do it and for the sake of their "beliefs".  Those need to go.  I don't appreciate being threatened and chased down the street by a crazy, knife wielding idiot bound on killing me ... or my children and grandchildren ... just because we dare to pray at our most holy place. 

Do your part to rid the world of these terrorists.  Currently there is not a voice of Islam against such people.
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The_Rock
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bullet Posted: 08 December 2017 at 12:02pm
I agree. Muslims are silent on the tribalism that is rife in the ummah.

Until they get rid of it they will not be trusted by others.

If you cannot criticize your own kind, your kind is lost.

Everyone must be a Nathan.
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Traveller  
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bullet Posted: 08 December 2017 at 11:09pm
Originally posted by The_Rock

I agree. Muslims are silent on the tribalism that is rife in the ummah.

Until they get rid of it they will not be trusted by others.

If you cannot criticize your own kind, your kind is lost.

Everyone must be a Nathan.


Come to my part of the world. You will see Muslims criticizing other Muslims here.

I'm sure you know we are the largest Muslim population in the world.
In life, be like a traveller. Take only what you need
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Magister
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bullet Posted: 09 December 2017 at 7:06am
I agree with Traveller. I don't think The Rock has been around many Muslims. There is a lot of Muslim-on-Muslim criticism. Lots of Muslim-on-madhab criticism. Lots of Muslim-on-culture criticism. Etc etc. and that's happening right here in the West.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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