Hall of FameHall of Fame  Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp  chatChat
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
InterReligious Dialogue
 Whyislam.org Forums : General : InterReligious Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Is there a reason for your belief. Post Reply Post New Topic
Page  of 3 Next >>
Author Message
The_Rock
Mureed
Mureed

Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4480
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Topic: Is there a reason for your belief.
    Posted: 27 December 2017 at 7:06pm
What is the reason you believe in your faith?
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Al-Cordoby  
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Moderator
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 27330
Forum Rating: 159
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2017 at 2:20am
Why do you ask Rock?


Think Win-Win for a better world for all...

My Blog
Muslim Heritage

No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Magister
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 5153
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2017 at 11:29pm
My belief in God is independent of my belief in Islam. My belief in Islam stems from the Quran. It convinced me that this could be the Word of no other than God Himself.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Corinna  
Graduate
Graduate

Religion: Judaism(Orthodox)
Posts: 2184
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Corinna Replybullet Posted: 31 December 2017 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by The_Rock

What is the reason you believe in your faith?


Yes. And you? 
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Doris  
Sophmore Member
Sophmore Member

Religion: Agnostic(Agnostic)
Posts: 185
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Doris Replybullet Posted: 01 January 2018 at 10:38am
It might be more fruitful to require into the lack of belief by some of us in any organized religion. I, for one, could expound for quite awhile.

Notice, I said "organized religion". If members of certain denominations would keep to themselves, as do the Jews, for example. I'd have no problems, but once they try to force their beliefs on others, the world grows darker.
History Buff
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Al-Cordoby  
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Moderator
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 27330
Forum Rating: 159
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 01 January 2018 at 12:10pm
You can't force anyone to believe in God

Either you believe or you don't believe

Right?

Think Win-Win for a better world for all...

My Blog
Muslim Heritage

No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Doris  
Sophmore Member
Sophmore Member

Religion: Agnostic(Agnostic)
Posts: 185
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Doris Replybullet Posted: 01 January 2018 at 3:09pm
Both Christianity and Islam are contemporary religions that have used force most egregiously to expand the ranks of their followers.
.
Of course, prior to the existence of either of these denominations, it was quite common for powerful men to demand a subject population adopt their religious beliefs.

After all, who is more reprehensible than a person who believes differently than you do about whether Pharoah or the Emperor is a divine being?

One of the many reasons I am sure that Muslims did not reach the Americas prior to the Europeans arrival is the fact that native cultures held on to their religious beliefs until the "Christians" arrived and convinced them that their own gods were nonsense.

I am in no doubt that "Muslims" would have done the same, using similar methods.   
History Buff
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Al-Cordoby  
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Moderator
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 27330
Forum Rating: 159
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 01 January 2018 at 8:52pm
Any one who does that is wrong.

You simply can't force anyone to believe.

Think Win-Win for a better world for all...

My Blog
Muslim Heritage

No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Damo808  
Mureed
Mureed

Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4234
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2018 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by Doris

Both Christianity and Islam are contemporary religions that have used force most egregiously to expand the ranks of their followers.
.
Of course, prior to the existence of either of these denominations, it was quite common for powerful men to demand a subject population adopt their religious beliefs.

After all, who is more reprehensible than a person who believes differently than you do about whether Pharoah or the Emperor is a divine being?

One of the many reasons I am sure that Muslims did not reach the Americas prior to the Europeans arrival is the fact that native cultures held on to their religious beliefs until the "Christians" arrived and convinced them that their own gods were nonsense.

I am in no doubt that "Muslims" would have done the same, using similar methods.   


As has been said. Scripture itself simply does not support such behaviour. The fact that an outlawed, and what many would have viewed as a burdensome ostracised faith which still managed to spread exponentially from tiny Jerusalem to North Africa, Syria, Greece, Rome and most if not all of its empire in as little as 100 years from the Ascension of Christ is pretty spectacular. Without any coercive force whatsoever.

      

Edited by Damo808 - 02 January 2018 at 12:20pm
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
The_Rock
Mureed
Mureed

Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4480
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2018 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by Corinna


Originally posted by The_Rock

What is the reason you believe in your faith?
Yes. And you?


I don't really believe in my faith. I am lock step with the CC mostly because I agree with the CC on most things.

The stuff I disagree with (married priests, etc) dont warrant me leaving the CC.
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Doris  
Sophmore Member
Sophmore Member

Religion: Agnostic(Agnostic)
Posts: 185
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Doris Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2018 at 6:55pm
Damon, I agree that Christian scripture does not allow forced conversion.

However, Christians with military superiority have frequently justified forced conversion on the specious grounds that they are 'saving souls' from damnation. I am thinking specifically of the central American invasions by the Spanish. Somehow those souls to be saved often had resources such as gold and silver.

I'm very cynical about this, as you can probably tell. The difference in the intentions of Christianity and its actual practice through the centuries is hard to reconcile.

History Buff
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Damo808  
Mureed
Mureed

Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 4234
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Damo808 Replybullet Posted: 03 January 2018 at 9:16am
Originally posted by Doris

Damon, I agree that Christian scripture does not allow forced conversion.

However, Christians with military superiority have frequently justified forced conversion on the specious grounds that they are 'saving souls' from damnation. I am thinking specifically of the central American invasions by the Spanish. Somehow those souls to be saved often had resources such as gold and silver.

I'm very cynical about this, as you can probably tell. The difference in the intentions of Christianity and its actual practice through the centuries is hard to reconcile.



I believe much of what you say can be chalked up to the imperfection of human nature. When a religious teaching exorts leaders to lead justly, and they do not. That is due to the disobedience of human nature rather than the religion or religious ethos of the majority. Religion is if anything but a guide one can chose to abide to or reject which can be due to pressure, desire, malice or whatever.. That is the frailty of the human condition. Even those who are our leaders whether religious or otherwise succumb to realizations they did not forsee and err in judgment whether wilfully or mistakenly. What is important most of all is post recognition and admission of wrongdoing and ways sought to apologise and if possible amend. Religion has to be evaluated in light of what it teaches in spite of human nature.


If any religion by its teachings compels its adherents to expand multiply and conquer by force. That is quite a different matter.
out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:5
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Al-Cordoby  
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Moderator
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 27330
Forum Rating: 159
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Al-Cordoby Replybullet Posted: 04 January 2018 at 12:11am
Originally posted by The_Rock


I don't really believe in my faith. I am lock step with the CC mostly because I agree with the CC on most things.

The stuff I disagree with (married priests, etc) dont warrant me leaving the CC.


The underlined is a serious statement, Rock

Why don't you believe in your faith?

Think Win-Win for a better world for all...

My Blog
Muslim Heritage

No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Magister
Mureed
Mureed
Avatar
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 5153
Forum Rating: 0
Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 04 January 2018 at 5:30am
Originally posted by Doris

Damon, I agree that Christian scripture does not allow forced conversion.

However, Christians with military superiority have frequently justified forced conversion on the specious grounds that they are 'saving souls' from damnation. I am thinking specifically of the central American invasions by the Spanish. Somehow those souls to be saved often had resources such as gold and silver.

I'm very cynical about this, as you can probably tell. The difference in the intentions of Christianity and its actual practice through the centuries is hard to reconcile.



I love how the 21st century puts the Spaniards in such a bad light. The Spanish are who connected the primitives with the modern world. When the Spaniards arrived in Central America, they found savages that used to rip the still-beating hearts of innocent slaves in ritual human sacrifice to their sun deity. The Spanish gave them civilization, and despite my personal disbelief in the religion, it was Catholicism that played a very big role in how the Spanish approached the natives. The Spanish were as much Catholic as the Saudis are Muslim. They were not your modern Sunday-only Catholics. They had gold on their mind, but it was right alongside God and Jesus. They didn't look at the Aztecs and go, "Wow, what a strange cultural practice!" when they were committing human sacrifice, but rather, they went: "Wow, what a Satanic religion based on opposing the Gospel of Christ!"

Sorry, but the Spanish showing up in ancient South America and the Caribbean was a good thing, and it had both gold AND Christianity as driving forces behind it.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
No Guest-Voting   IP IP Logged
Page  of 3 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums version 8.03
Copyright ©2001-2006 Web Wiz Guide
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed by members of the Whyislam Forum do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of the Whyislam Team, or any of its subsidiaries, or parent organizations.