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Magister
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 30 November 2018 at 4:11am
Rock, your post would concern Atheists, Agnostics, Secularists, and just about anyone who isn't Jewish or Christian (and your particular brand of Christians, I'm sure).

The US was not founded on Judeo-Christian principles. It was founded on secular principles. Many of our founding fathers were themselves Deists, not Christians. Even one of our nation's earliest documents makes it clear that the US is NOT a Christian nation or a nation following any other religion.

Now, if you're talking about culture, cultures change and there's not much we can do about it. Just 100 years ago, it was a matter of fact that men beat their wives - it was joked about in advertisements. Just a few decades ago, the legal marriageable age for females was 6 years old in some states. Smoking has went out of fashion. Other subcultures rose up. Cultures change, and we need to accept that fact.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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The_Rock
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 03 December 2018 at 2:30pm
None of those people, are opposed to integration. The Atheist and agnostic still possess a christian mind.

I am not opposed to christian and jewish (historically christian, not converts) immigrants from any part of the world.

Non Christian Asian immigrants will quickly change behaviour and views to fit in with the host countries.

Non Christian South Asians are far more resistant to integration whether they are Sikh or Hindus. Im less convinced of the value of Hindu immigrants to this country.

Middle Eastern and South Asian Muslims I think are just too alien to live in our societies.

There are deep fundamental differences that cannot be bridged. You mentioned Linda Sarsour, and you are right to mention her, because here is a born and raised American whose allegiance is primarily to the Ummah and who truly would be better off in a Khilafat.

The question for every muslim parent living in the west ought to be, is my child going to make the choices I made?

The answer is , there is a very good chance your child may choose as Linda Sarsour has to hate her own country and compatriots.

Edited by The_Rock - 03 December 2018 at 5:05pm
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote The_Rock Replybullet Posted: 03 December 2018 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by Magister


The US was not founded on Judeo-Christian principles. It was founded on secular principles. Many of our founding fathers were themselves Deists, not Christians. Even one of our nation's earliest documents makes it clear that the US is NOT a Christian nation or a nation following any other religion.


This isnt about theology but the culture of Christianity.


Now, if you're talking about culture, cultures change and there's not much we can do about it. Just 100 years ago, it was a matter of fact that men beat their wives - it was joked about in advertisements. Just a few decades ago, the legal marriageable age for females was 6 years old in some states. Smoking has went out of fashion. Other subcultures rose up. Cultures change, and we need to accept that fact.


Cultures do change, however, not all change is good.
I am trying to actively advocate against a cultural change that I think would be bad for our nations.

Dont get me wrong, I have no problem with muslims, but its too much too fast, and quite frankly muslims are particularly problematic because in many ways muslims are programmed to avoid integration.

Now here I am saying that I believe mass immigration is going to create deep social divisions.
Muslims cannot integrate and demand that their culture and ideas be given equal space.

We have tried this experiment in the past, over hundreds of years with the jews of Europe.

We are going to slowly return to that situation, and quite frankly the easiest and least painful solution for everyone is to understand and avoid going through the kind of thing we have already gone through with once with jews in Europe.

Who wants a repeat of Hitlers Antisemitism and violence?

The masses are responding, Trump and his ilk in Europe is just the start of a very deep and likely long and violent response to muslim immigration.


The solution is to stop immigration.

No one wants violence, and the masses cannot take on too much change, and quite frankly we have already seen too much change in the west.

I hate sounding like a racist, but thats really not what I am. I simply recognize a tsunami that is coming and I want to do everything I can to minimize the damage.

Edited by The_Rock - 03 December 2018 at 5:23pm
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Magister
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 16 December 2018 at 3:51pm
Originally posted by Rock

None of those people, are opposed to integration. The Atheist and agnostic still possess a christian mind.


Rock, they are fundamentally different from Christians by a MILE. They expect YOU to integrate into THEIR society. Look at most agnostics and atheists that are vocal. They expect Christians to start complying with Western secular standards. And the remark about atheists and agnostics still possessing a "Christian" mind is ludicrous. If anything, as time moves forward, more and more Christians are adopting an atheist/agnostic mindset - not the other way around. Atheists and agnostics don't have rules against promiscuity, adultery, gambling, drinking, smoking, etc. Some atheists are even militant toward any formal religion. This is hardly a "Christian" mindset.

Originally posted by The Rock



I am not opposed to christian and jewish (historically christian, not converts) immigrants from any part of the world.


Neither am I - nor am I opposed to immigrants of ANY faith.

Originally posted by The Rock


Non Christian Asian immigrants will quickly change behaviour and views to fit in with the host countries.


I agree with this. They assimilate perhaps the best. Unless names like Harold and Charlie are traditional, ancient Chinese names . They assimilate perfectly fine in the United States, I agree there - but it may be a cultural predisposition they are accustomed to, which you seem to have hinted at yourself later in your post.

Originally posted by The Rock

]
Non Christian South Asians are far more resistant to integration whether they are Sikh or Hindus. Im less convinced of the value of Hindu immigrants to this country.


I see this too - which I would've pointed out to you had you not brought it up yourself. It seems to be a trend in my experience that they want very little to do with the Western population and more to do with the Western dollars. Of course there are exceptions, but I've seen this a lot. But their children end up assimilating with American culture anyway - so in the end it's just like with every other immigrant group. I've had a bunch of Hindu friends in school - most of them Hindu by "name" only, but one of them particularly religious (wouldn't eat meat). All of them enjoyed American sports, American pastimes, American foods, hung out with Americans, and pretty much were just like any other American.

Originally posted by The Rock


Middle Eastern and South Asian Muslims I think are just too alien to live in our societies.


Here is where I disagree. I come from an Italian section, and Arabs lived amongst us, sometimes even claiming to be Italian and most of the time passing for Italian just fine. Religion was hardly ever brought up - they were just as secular as most Italian-Americans. They hung out with the Italians, they dressed like the Italians, they even had names like Italians. The ones from Spanish neighborhoods likewise acted like they were Spanish. Even the "foreign" Arabs were readily assimilating with American culture. South Asians a little less so when it came to the ones that migrated here, but the ones born and raised here assimilate without a problem. I'm married to a Pakistani, and her family observes the 4th of July, Thanksgiving, and American cultural occasions like baby showers, etc. and many of them were born and raised in Pakistan. The ones born and raised here (even among others in the community and outside the family) are no different from most other American kids - they play basketball, go to university, get married and have children, buy homes, and a lot of them have within their close social circles white, black and hispanic friends - all of whom are tied together mainly by American culture (sports, occasions, jobs, etc).

This part seems like you either have a very different breed of Middle Easterners and South Asians in Canada, or you're just not exposed to them on a personal level.

Originally posted by The Rock


There are deep fundamental differences that cannot be bridged. You mentioned Linda Sarsour, and you are right to mention her, because here is a born and raised American whose allegiance is primarily to the Ummah and who truly would be better off in a Khilafat.


I think less with the "Ummah" and more with "Palestine". That liberal guy I used to argue with on here brought up a good point - that perhaps she was using the Leftist agenda to help her own people in Palestine against Israel. I don't see any Muslims that care about the ummah so much that they're making a big deal over the million Chinese Muslims being held in concentration camps. Seems most of the Muslims (and non-Muslims) that take part in "activism" do it based on either personal agendas (e.g., my family in Palestine needs my help) or on things that are really not that big of a deal. The Chinese Muslims are a significant part of our Ummah, but I don't see any activists taking to the streets. Do you? Point is, Sarsour shouldn't be seen as a typical Muslim putting the Ummah first - she's a Left-wing activist who happens to be Muslim. What's so different about what she's fighting for than what some other transgender, half-Jewish half-black Leftist is fighting for? It's all Leftist propaganda, regardless of the religion of the activist.

Originally posted by The Rock


The question for every muslim parent living in the west ought to be, is my child going to make the choices I made?

The answer is , there is a very good chance your child may choose as Linda Sarsour has to hate her own country and compatriots.


I can only speak for my own family - my kids are not only in love with God Almighty, but also love their country. I think I know what you mean, though - as I did see some Muslims who identify themselves as sort of "visitors" as opposed to as being "American". It might be the way they're treated as outsiders, perhaps, or it might just be they have just little love for their new countries, I don't know. Perhaps a little of both. Allah knows best.

By the way, do you consider yourself a Canadian or a Christian first?

Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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Magister
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes Quote Magister Replybullet Posted: 16 December 2018 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by The_Rock

Originally posted by Magister


The US was not founded on Judeo-Christian principles. It was founded on secular principles. Many of our founding fathers were themselves Deists, not Christians. Even one of our nation's earliest documents makes it clear that the US is NOT a Christian nation or a nation following any other religion.


This isnt about theology but the culture of Christianity.


Now, if you're talking about culture, cultures change and there's not much we can do about it. Just 100 years ago, it was a matter of fact that men beat their wives - it was joked about in advertisements. Just a few decades ago, the legal marriageable age for females was 6 years old in some states. Smoking has went out of fashion. Other subcultures rose up. Cultures change, and we need to accept that fact.


Cultures do change, however, not all change is good.
I am trying to actively advocate against a cultural change that I think would be bad for our nations.

Dont get me wrong, I have no problem with muslims, but its too much too fast, and quite frankly muslims are particularly problematic because in many ways muslims are programmed to avoid integration.

Now here I am saying that I believe mass immigration is going to create deep social divisions.
Muslims cannot integrate and demand that their culture and ideas be given equal space.

We have tried this experiment in the past, over hundreds of years with the jews of Europe.

We are going to slowly return to that situation, and quite frankly the easiest and least painful solution for everyone is to understand and avoid going through the kind of thing we have already gone through with once with jews in Europe.

Who wants a repeat of Hitlers Antisemitism and violence?

The masses are responding, Trump and his ilk in Europe is just the start of a very deep and likely long and violent response to muslim immigration.


The solution is to stop immigration.

No one wants violence, and the masses cannot take on too much change, and quite frankly we have already seen too much change in the west.

I hate sounding like a racist, but thats really not what I am. I simply recognize a tsunami that is coming and I want to do everything I can to minimize the damage.


I agree with the notion that too much immigration too fast is a horrible thing. What's happening in Europe is a mess, and we have it also, but not from the Muslim world, but rather from the Christian world (South America, mainly Mexico). I have no problem with immigration, but when you have too many coming from impoverished parts of the world, it starts to create new problems. Influx of gangs and crime, sub-cultures sprouting up alongside mainstream cultures, etc.

However, I have to disagree with you that Muslims are programmed to avoid integration. This is unheard of. If Muslims click together more than with outsiders, it's likely simply because they have more in common. Not unlike immigrants sticking with their own because of the language or customs. Serbians, I'm sure, have their own social clubs, communities, neighborhoods, etc. There's nothing in Islam that prevents us from integrating with non-Muslims, so long as we don't abandon our religions to do so.

Rock, I don't think your problem is with Muslims. Your problem is with fellow countrymen that are left-leaning extremists. Poor people will go to a better setting almost always - it's human nature to take that opportunity when it comes. Can't blame them. They'd be fools not to come to the West when the doors are open for them to swarm in. It's the politicians and Left-leaning extremists who don't want borders that should be blamed.

I'm on your side when it comes to the massive immigrant waves. I'd say this for any group - too much is not good. And eventually it's going to cause a backlash by the majority. I told my wife that I foretell a Hitler-like situation happening in a Western nation in the near future, and that instead of Jews, this time, it's going to be the other Middle Eastern white meat - the Muslims that end up in concentration camps. (Maybe Mexicans and South Americans in the US, though - as we don't have a giant influx of Middle Easterners here the way Europe has had it; instead, our country's complaints revolve around "caravans" from south of the border.) But ultimately, it's not the fault of the migrants in the end, they're just taking the opportunity given to them. It's the fault of those in power and those who influence decision-making. Those with radical views. I am all for secured borders, controlled immigration.

And the least the migrants can do is assimilate with the environment or just be quiet enough that no one gets bothered by their presence.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
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